Coronavirus in Massachusetts (safety, food, estimate)

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by bohemka

the J&J vaccine is being distributed to poor or less affluent areas as if it's substandard but good enough for poor people

It's BS, that's why there in no proof. I know many people (including me) that wanted specifically the J&J because it's a single dose.
What I think they were trying was to direct the J&J toward area of resistance to vaccination. The idea is to reduce the chances of someone coming for the first vaccine but not show up for the second.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by redplum33

Yes, because you're the expert who just yesterday said all 3 options are excellent choices.

Originally Posted by porterhouse

and they still are. you've been a chicken little through this entire thread, and wrong much more often than not.

How much J&J stock do you own? I know you've been trying to profit from the pandemic. And pretty sure you haven't gotten any of these "excellent choices".

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by redplum33

How much J&J stock do you own? I know you've been trying to profit from the pandemic. And pretty sure you haven't gotten any of these "excellent choices".

It's pretty basic. What are the numerator and denominator in the J&J vaccine safety data?

[BostonMike7]

So much anger? Why?

I understand the caution that the CDC/FDA would take here given that there are two alternative vaccines so they can afford to pause here on the J&J. No harm in pausing other than public perception, but then again people have been screaming for the US looking into side effects, so here we are.

6 out of a sample size of 7 million could be possible correlation, vs causation. What is the normally occurring rate of blood clotting in a population size of 7 million people who haven't taken the vaccine? As I stated previously, blood clotting from birth control pills occurs at a rate of about 1 in 1000 people. Assuming half the 7 million are women and half are pre-menopause that leaves you 1.75 million. Lets say half of those are on birth control. 875,000. If you assume 1 in 1000 then that means potentially 875 people may have clotting issues just from birth control? Gets muddier from here to determine if the rate of blood clots in the unvaccinated population occur at the same rate as those that got the J&J vaccine.

On top of that, almost a million people a year get blood clots, with up to 90,000 passing away from it.
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/data.html

Obviously I zero data to really argue one way or the other, but my gut feeling is that this is not statistically significant. I didn't even include other factors like smoking that can cause clotting.

These vaccines are going to be heavily scrutinized and under a microscope for years to come. If only people looked at data on some of the other drugs/treatments they take in their normal lives they would realize that every medical procedure, treatment, drug, vaccine, therapy, etc comes with some level of risk/danger. Most just don't realize it.

[Lampert]

This is exactly what happened in Europe with the AZ vaccine. They will likely resume the use of this vaccine within a few days after assessing that the risks are minimal and instruct doctors on what exactly to look for.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I just think it's crappy that people who are doubtful about the efficacy of this vaccine and the side effects are basically viewed as stupid. People have different reactions to medications and vaccines. Overall I don't feel particularly nervous about the vaccine. I also don't feel that nervous about getting covid.

The issue isn't so much with the people who are doubtful and willing to do their due diligence (there's plenty of good information out there). Everyone should do their homework. The issue is with the people who can't or won't do the negligible amount of research that would alleviate most of that doubt. Especially the ones who are extremely vocal about "the sky is falling!" "nanobots!" "5g!" - these are stupid people, there's no getting around it. It's not too hard identify good sources of information, but many people can't or won't and it's not crappy to view them as stupid.

fewer than 10 instances of severe blood clotting out of millions of doses is not cause for major alarm and it has literally nothing to do with the vaccine's efficacy against COVID-19 (the CDC in their daily conference today said that PCPs can/should still administer J+J shots to patients they deem to be at little/no risk, and that they wouldn't stop providers from continuing to administer the shot if they choose). But there are a lot of people who can't differentiate between side effects and efficacy and there are even more who hear "CDC recommends a pause..." and go into panic mode. Stupid really is the best word for these people.

[msRB311]

There were plenty of anti vaxxers before covid 19. Not sure why people are suprised about the reluctance of some to get this vaccine.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

I'm not sure which is worse. The "COVID-19 is certain death as is vaccination with a drug that doesn't have a decade of safety history" or "It's just the flu".

As of right now, dying from the J&J vaccine is .000086% chance of happening versus 1.8% chance of dying from Covid. Pick your poison.

[yesmaybe]

https://twitter.com/SirSinzz/status/1381961361790537732

MA officially orders that sites stop giving J&J.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

So much anger? Why?

I understand the caution that the CDC/FDA would take here given that there are two alternative vaccines so they can afford to pause here on the J&J. No harm in pausing other than public perception, but then again people have been screaming for the US looking into side effects, so here we are.

6 out of a sample size of 7 million could be possible correlation, vs causation. What is the normally occurring rate of blood clotting in a population size of 7 million people who haven't taken the vaccine? As I stated previously, blood clotting from birth control pills occurs at a rate of about 1 in 1000 people. Assuming half the 7 million are women and half are pre-menopause that leaves you 1.75 million. Lets say half of those are on birth control. 875,000. If you assume 1 in 1000 then that means potentially 875 people may have clotting issues just from birth control? Gets muddier from here to determine if the rate of blood clots in the unvaccinated population occur at the same rate as those that got the J&J vaccine.

On top of that, almost a million people a year get blood clots, with up to 90,000 passing away from it.
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/data.html

Obviously I zero data to really argue one way or the other, but my gut feeling is that this is not statistically significant. I didn't even include other factors like smoking that can cause clotting.

These vaccines are going to be heavily scrutinized and under a microscope for years to come. If only people looked at data on some of the other drugs/treatments they take in their normal lives they would realize that every medical procedure, treatment, drug, vaccine, therapy, etc comes with some level of risk/danger. Most just don't realize it.

Agree with both main points you are making. When you give a vaccine (or a drug) to millions of people, things will happen to them. They'll have car accidents, they'll have heart attacks, strokes, develop cancer, and yes, suffer blood clots. The first question is - are the rates of the adverse events higher in the study population than they are in the general population? Because if they're not, then these are "background" events that occur in any large group of people.

And even if the answer to the above is yes, the rates are higher, and the numbers are statistically significant, and we have a proposed mechanism for causality of the adverse event to boot, then there is still another critical question - are the rates of the adverse event large enough and is the severity of the events high enough that the health costs outweigh the health benefits of the vaccine? When you have a pandemic that's still spreading aggressively, that's killed over 550,000 Americans and saddled far more with serious long term complications, an effective vaccine has clear and strong benefits.