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Old 05-13-2022, 10:55 AM
 
4,642 posts, read 1,187,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose2Luv View Post
The Divine Equation =

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Note

1. Condemnation is upon "all mankind."

Result = "many made sinners."

2. Justification of life is upon the many made sinners through the obedience of the One making the identical polus "righteous."

Two heads one outcome

Adam1 = many made sinners.

Last Adam = many made righteous.

All = all

Many = many

Some = some

Polus = polus
But all without exception arent made righteous, only some. Thats why Paul rote 1 Cor 6:9

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 
Old 05-13-2022, 01:54 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,134,096 times
Reputation: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
I think that you are trying to re-define hell as being something other than what is spoken of here:


Mar 9:43, And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45, And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47, And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Actually it is the KJV translation that is trying to redefine 'hell'. The KJV is wrong here - yet again. GO LOOK FOR YOURSELF. IT IS NOT INERRANT. It is easy to see if you go look it up. But if you continue lying to yourself about this - be careful, for all liars have their part in the lake of fire.

This is why it is better to use multiple translations and look at the original words.

Also you forgot Mark 9:49
Mar 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

jsutbyfaith, YOU are going to be salted with fire.


The word translated 'hell' here is not hades/sheol/grave. It is Gehenna (geena) - referring to the Valley of Hinnom(Gehenna) near Jerusalem. Jesus was talking about the valley where they threw garbage and dead bodies of criminals. It was of great disrespect if your body went there because it meant you didn't get a proper burial. The fires were unquenchable because they always burning; because garbage was always being thrown there to keep the fires going. Yet the fires did eventually go out - today you can visit the Valley of Hinnom and it is a grassy valley. The worms "dieth not" because they were always decomposing (eating) the dead bodies that were thrown there.

Unquenchable does not mean 'eternal'. It just means it won't go out until there is nothing left to burn.

Jesus was speaking about this as a parable for judgment. It would 'better to cut off your hand' -> yet no one cuts off their hand. 'Pluck out your eye' -> no one actually does this. He is speaking in spiritual terms. You need to spiritually 'cut off your hand and pluck your eye' -> meaning correct your behavior.

Its nothing to do with a mythical 'eternal torture in hell'. Its about judgment by fire, and judgment is for learning righteousness. (ie. learning what is right and correcting behavior).

Last edited by legoman; 05-13-2022 at 02:13 PM..
 
Old 05-13-2022, 01:58 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,134,096 times
Reputation: 751
Mark 9
43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.[k] It is preferable for you to enter life maimed than to have two hands and go into the unquenchable fire of Gehenna [ 44 where the devouring worm never dies and the fire is never quenched][l] 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into Gehenna [ 46 where the devouring worm never dies and the fire is never quenched]. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is preferable for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be cast into Gehenna, 48 where the devouring worm never dies and the fire is never quenched.

49 The Simile of Salt.“For everyone will be salted with fire.[m] 50 Salt is good, but if salt loses its saltiness, how can you revive its flavor? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”
 
Old 05-13-2022, 02:29 PM
 
Location: the Kingdom of His dear Son
7,530 posts, read 3,032,424 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
But all without exception arent made righteous, only some.
You poor dear boy: you must awaken from your slumber. "Rote" is the exercise in which you blindly carry on.

The equation of ABBA is equal on each side ! !

The identical polus "made sinners" are the polus "made righteous."

EVERY LAST ONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpgaWm2pnNs&t=11s

Last edited by Rose2Luv; 05-13-2022 at 02:51 PM..
 
Old 05-13-2022, 04:27 PM
 
63,844 posts, read 40,128,566 times
Reputation: 7882
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Actually it is the KJV translation that is trying to redefine 'hell'. The KJV is wrong here - yet again. GO LOOK FOR YOURSELF. IT IS NOT INERRANT. It is easy to see if you go look it up. But if you continue lying to yourself about this - be careful, for all liars have their part in the lake of fire.

This is why it is better to use multiple translations and look at the original words.

Also you forgot Mark 9:49
Mar 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

jsutbyfaith, YOU are going to be salted with fire.

The word translated 'hell' here is not hades/sheol/grave. It is Gehenna (geena) - referring to the Valley of Hinnom(Gehenna) near Jerusalem. Jesus was talking about the valley where they threw garbage and dead bodies of criminals. It was of great disrespect if your body went there because it meant you didn't get a proper burial. The fires were unquenchable because they always burning; because garbage was always being thrown there to keep the fires going. Yet the fires did eventually go out - today you can visit the Valley of Hinnom and it is a grassy valley. The worms "dieth not" because they were always decomposing (eating) the dead bodies that were thrown there.

Unquenchable does not mean 'eternal'. It just means it won't go out until there is nothing left to burn.

Jesus was speaking about this as a parable for judgment. It would 'better to cut off your hand' -> yet no one cuts off their hand. 'Pluck out your eye' -> no one actually does this. He is speaking in spiritual terms. You need to spiritually 'cut off your hand and pluck your eye' -> meaning correct your behavior.

Its nothing to do with a mythical 'eternal torture in hell'. Its about judgment by fire, and judgment is for learning righteousness. (ie. learning what is right and correcting behavior).
He is immune to reason, Legoman.
 
Old 05-13-2022, 05:02 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,134,096 times
Reputation: 751
If you want to understand how scripture shows that God will reconcile all, you need to unlearn some of the modern teachings that 'everyone knows'.

We must untwist the meanings that have been foisted onto the words in scripture. Words lose meaning as they become euphemisms for endless torments. Here are some examples:

Hell = a place of endless torment in fire
Death = leads to hell or heaven
Gehenna = Hell, hellfire
Lake of Fire = Hell, or the final destination of Hell, as Hell is thrown in the Lake of Fire. Often thought of as a literal fire burning bodies/souls forever (how does that work exactly? Why does 'hell' need to be thrown into it, since it is already a place of endless torment?)
Eternal Fire = used for endless torment
Wrath = God's anger can only be satisfied by eternal torment
Judgment = when sinners give account and then get sent to eternal torment
Punishment = eternal torment
Unrighteous = sinners who will endure eternal torment
Righteous = those who are made right so they avoid eternal torment
God is Love = but he also hates those sinners who He throws into endless torment

The words have become twisted so that saying any of these immediately conjures up images of a fabled eternal hell. This paints a picture that the only purpose is to escape this endless torment - because obviously that is the most horrible thing imaginable.

==

Lets look at the actual meanings based on scripture, and you will see a different picture.

Hell = sheol, hades, the grave, the place where the dead go, where there is no device or knowledge
Death = like sleep
Gehenna = reference to the Valley of Hinnom where garbage and criminal's bodies' were burned up - the fires never went out (until they did). Metaphor for judgment.
Lake of Fire = symbolic of judgment in the highly symbolic book of Revelations. Many people will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Death and hades is thrown in so that they are destroyed.
Eternal Fire = fire is often used symbolically as trials, judgment, purification, refinement, destruction, removing dross & impurities. All will experience trials by fire and be salted by fire.
Punishment = used to correct behavior and hold people to account so they learn to do right
Wrath = God's wrath brings forth His judgments
Judgement = each person will give an account of what they have done; when God's judgments come, the people learn righteousness ie. they learn how they were wrong and what is right
Unrighteous = every single one of us who sins (ie. everyone)
Righteous = we will all be made righteous in due time.
God is Love = His grand purpose is to bring us all together so all things are reconciled; He teaches us what righteousness and love actually is.

If you have eyes to see, then you can see a grand purpose. God is working through all the trials and judgments to purify us and teach us righteousness, so we will actually be made into sons and daughters of God.
 
Old 05-13-2022, 06:00 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,847,256 times
Reputation: 143
It should be clear that being cast into the lake of fire does not make a person righteous; for it is the second death (Revelation 20:15) meted out to those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

Because righteousness means life.
 
Old 05-13-2022, 06:03 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,847,256 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
If you want to understand how scripture shows that God will reconcile all, you need to unlearn some of the modern teachings that 'everyone knows'.

We must untwist the meanings that have been foisted onto the words in scripture. Words lose meaning as they become euphemisms for endless torments. Here are some examples:

Hell = a place of endless torment in fire
Death = leads to hell or heaven
Gehenna = Hell, hellfire
Lake of Fire = Hell, or the final destination of Hell, as Hell is thrown in the Lake of Fire. Often thought of as a literal fire burning bodies/souls forever (how does that work exactly? Why does 'hell' need to be thrown into it, since it is already a place of endless torment?)
Eternal Fire = used for endless torment
Wrath = God's anger can only be satisfied by eternal torment
Judgment = when sinners give account and then get sent to eternal torment
Punishment = eternal torment
Unrighteous = sinners who will endure eternal torment
Righteous = those who are made right so they avoid eternal torment
God is Love = but he also hates those sinners who He throws into endless torment

The words have become twisted so that saying any of these immediately conjures up images of a fabled eternal hell. This paints a picture that the only purpose is to escape this endless torment - because obviously that is the most horrible thing imaginable.

==

Lets look at the actual meanings based on scripture, and you will see a different picture.

Hell = sheol, hades, the grave, the place where the dead go, where there is no device or knowledge
Death = like sleep
Gehenna = reference to the Valley of Hinnom where garbage and criminal's bodies' were burned up - the fires never went out (until they did). Metaphor for judgment.
Lake of Fire = symbolic of judgment in the highly symbolic book of Revelations. Many people will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Death and hades is thrown in so that they are destroyed.
Eternal Fire = fire is often used symbolically as trials, judgment, purification, refinement, destruction, removing dross & impurities. All will experience trials by fire and be salted by fire.
Punishment = used to correct behavior and hold people to account so they learn to do right
Wrath = God's wrath brings forth His judgments
Judgement = each person will give an account of what they have done; when God's judgments come, the people learn righteousness ie. they learn how they were wrong and what is right
Unrighteous = every single one of us who sins (ie. everyone)
Righteous = we will all be made righteous in due time.
God is Love = His grand purpose is to bring us all together so all things are reconciled; He teaches us what righteousness and love actually is.

If you have eyes to see, then you can see a grand purpose. God is working through all the trials and judgments to purify us and teach us righteousness, so we will actually be made into sons and daughters of God.
Again, it is clear that you are attempting to re-define these words according to the meanings afforded to you by the doctrines of the UR.

It should be clear that that is how cults operate.

They re-define words so that the members of the cult hear something entirely different when certain words are used in preaching.
 
Old 05-13-2022, 06:05 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,847,256 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Actually it is the KJV translation that is trying to redefine 'hell'. The KJV is wrong here - yet again. GO LOOK FOR YOURSELF. IT IS NOT INERRANT.
That is merely your opinion...

And also, in rejecting the fact that the kjv is inerrant and inspired as concerning doctrine, I believe that you are going to miss some very important truths that would have been salvational to you if you had accepted them.
 
Old 05-13-2022, 06:07 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,134,096 times
Reputation: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
That is merely your opinion.
Actually its not LOL. I've presented the facts of errors in the KJV that you simply choose to ignore.
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