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Universalism is based on emotion, a misunderstanding of God’s holiness, and requires that problematic scripture passages have been wrongly translated.
If you believe in universal salvation, I hope you are still sharing the good news that Jesus saves.
I can just as easily say that Eternal Torment teaching is based on fear, a misunderstanding of God's justice and love, and requires that problematic scripture passages be ignored or changed.
For me it is simple; the concept of eternal torment is incongruent with a God of justice and love. And there is a very reasonable explanation of how men corrupted scripture to promote eternal torment in order to control people through fear.
I think Hal-5's quote sums it up well:
Quote:
Satan approaches God. God asks - 'what you been up to?'. Satan replies...'well, thanks to my evil scheming. it now official church doctrine that Christ only saved a very few, the rest go to hell. Well, the majority of your 'followers' think your a monster but won't admit it due to fear of church. I got our roles reversed, who would of thought me even capable of doing such a thing?'
I can just as easily say that Eternal Torment teaching is based on fear, a misunderstanding of God's justice and love, and requires that problematic scripture passages be ignored or changed.
For me it is simple; the concept of eternal torment is incongruent with a God of justice and love. And there is a very reasonable explanation of how men corrupted scripture to promote eternal torment in order to control people through fear.
I think there is a law/justice thing going on for our benefit in the universe. Think the book of Job. There was discussion over legality over what Job had and who he was as a person. This same thing goes on continually, that is until perfection comes but until then I imagine a dialog like this....Satan approaches God. God asks - 'what you been up to?'. Satan replies...'well, thanks to my evil scheming. it now official church doctrine that Christ only saved a very few, the rest go to hell. Well, the majority of your 'followers' think your a monster but won't admit it due to fear of church. I got our roles reversed, who would of thought me even capable of doing such a thing?' ------ maybe THIS is why the church is powerless today and has been for a long time. Where are the signs that God said would follow the believers? Where are the victories, the healings, the breaking down of strongholds? I certainly don't see it. A few Spirit filled Christians in a hospital.....laying on of hands , I've seen many healings in my life time , up front as well. They could clear a hospital out...Jesus even said our miracles would be as great or greater than His....where are they? Well, back to that book of Job and that legality thing going on.
I have to say that I am surprised at the reactions I sometimes get simply for preaching sound doctrine on the issue of hell.
It makes me think that we are indeed in the days of 2 Timothy 4:3.
It's is funny that you say the doctrine of hell is sound (nowhere in the scriptures does it say such a thing) while totally ignoring that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all, is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, and this is found within the scriptures.
People who do what you are saying end up in mental hospitals.
It is not culturally acceptable to preach to the masses that they are all going to hell (except maybe on the internet).
And therefore, those who do so are basically considered to be mentally ill by society.
Therefore when they go and preach, it is considered, not that they are trying to help the people to whom they are preaching; but it is considered that they are the ones who need help.
So, it becomes a matter of self-preservation that we do not go to the streets and preach to everyone in sight.
At least if we do our preaching on an acceptable venue, we live to preach another day.
I wonder why? How do you deal in the here and now with the thought of knowing billions(including your family and friends) are going to be eternally tortured in flames?
Every created thing (παν κτισμα). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from κτιζω, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4; James 1:18), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse Revelation 5:3, with on the sea επ της θαλασσης added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (κτισις) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off.
Saying (λεγοντας). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have λεγοντα (grammatical gender agreeing with παντα) present active participle of λεγω, to say.
And to the Lamb (κα τω αρνιω). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne.Note separate articles here in the doxology as in Revelation 4:11 and the addition of το κρατος (active power) in place of ισχυς (reserve of strength) in Revelation 5:12. ~A.T. Robertson
The gospel is good news that will bring great joy to all people... God will have all men to be saved, Jesus is the saviour of the world
John 3:17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jesus spoke on Gehenna, Jesus spoke on judgement, and Jesus spoke many parables about the Kingdom of God. None of this somehow negates the idea that God will still save all.
It's is funny that you say the doctrine of hell is sound (nowhere in the scriptures does it say such a thing) while totally ignoring that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all, is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, and this is found within the scriptures.
Indeed.. I tried to show jbf that 'hell' is not what you think it is in the bible.
In the mind of the eternal torment believer, anything that remotely mentions fire, death, judgment, etc. is proof that eternal torment in hell exists, even though the bible doesn't say any such thing.
Here is the 'hell' that was talked about by Jesus:
The gospel is good news that will bring great joy to all people... God will have all men to be saved, Jesus is the saviour of the world
John 3:17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jesus spoke on Gehenna, Jesus spoke on judgement, and Jesus spoke many parables about the Kingdom of God. None of this somehow negates the idea that God will still save all.
You answered my question with your non-answer. Even our atheist friends know the answer to this question.
The gospel is good news that will bring great joy to all people... God will have all men to be saved, Jesus is the saviour of the world
John 3:17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jesus spoke on Gehenna, Jesus spoke on judgement, and Jesus spoke many parables about the Kingdom of God. None of this somehow negates the idea that God will still save all.
When angels announced good news, to all people at the birth of the Saviour of all mankind; that is precisley the scope of the good news!
Phil. 2:10 {That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow} (hina en twi onomati iesou pan gonu kampsài). First aorist active subjunctive of kampt", old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with hina. Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. this universal homage to Jesus is seen in #Ro 8:22; Eph 1:20-22 and in particular #Re 5:13. {Under the earth} (katachthoni"n). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead.
Phil. 2:11 {Should confess} (exomologàsàtai). First aorist middle subjunctive of exomologeomai with hina for purpose. {Lord} (kurios). Peter (#Ac 2:36) claimed that God made Christ "Lord." See also #1Co 8:6; 12:3; Rom. 10:9. Kennedy mourns that the term Lord has become one of the most lifeless in the Christian vocabulary, whereas it really declares the true character and dignity of Jesus Christ and "is the basis and the object of worship." ~A.T. Robertson
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