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I feel sorry for you jbf. What you write so often is convoluted, (what on Earth did you just write?) ..truth of the matter is...should confess not shall??
Not being mean, but after I read your 'NDE' as well, that is scary stuff. God has overcome the world, your message is opposite due to possible spark plug wires on the wrong plugs ??
It is totally pointless for me to argue when one side is in a scary , alternate universe.
When you are debating with someone that believes the original translation of the scripture is the kjv of the Bible, you're not going to very far with them. Thankfully he draws out answers to his lunacy, for any lurker openly seeking truth.
Once you get to the point where belief in eternal torment is no longer tenable, usually one of the following things happens.
1. you become an atheist
2. you begin to consider what you were taught was wrong and consider alternatives like annihilationism or universal salvation
If your mind is open and you can study with humility, you will see two major issues with most of our modern English bible translations. Typically this can only happen if God has given you eyes to see.
These mistranslation issues can be seen quite easily with a bit of study:
1. the 'hell' mistranslations - hell, hades, sheol, gehenna, unquenchable fire, undying worms, lake of fire -> these are misconstrued as some sort of eternal firepit where people are literally burning forever.
2. the 'forever/eternal' mistranslations - typically theses verses are referring to a certain time period and not literally forever. Don't confuse this with immortality
Once you realize these mistranslations exist, then it is easy to see the plethora of verses that talk about God saving all and restoring all things. We can go into study on this in detail if people desire, but I recommend looking first at a couple of sites that helped me:
These sites don't agree with each other on everything, but they do provide good studies on the problems with 'eternal hell' teaching. Its good to look at different viewpoints.
But you have to be open to seeing this. If you are someone who says people must suffer burning forever; and this is justice; and you don't see a problem with that; then you are probably not ready for this yet.
There is a dude on the internet right now that is saying that there is a major mistranslation in the Bible and that the original text teaches us that we ought to eat cannabis.
I feel sorry for you jbf. What you write so often is convoluted, (what on Earth did you just write?) ..truth of the matter is...should confess not shall??
Not being mean, but after I read your 'NDE' as well, that is scary stuff. God has overcome the world, your message is opposite due to possible spark plug wires on the wrong plugs ??
It is totally pointless for me to argue when one side is in a scary , alternate universe.
And I feel sorry for you; especially if your belief that everyone will be saved in the end prevents you from taking the steps that are necessary to procure salvation.
I wouldn't want to be you on the day of judgment; because you are one of those false teachers who preaches a different gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) and leads people astray into believing that there is no hurry when it comes to receiving Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.
Some will very likely put off their decision to receive Christ until it is too late because of that teaching.
Once you get to the point where belief in eternal torment is no longer tenable, usually one of the following things happens.
1. you become an atheist
2. you begin to consider what you were taught was wrong and consider alternatives like annihilationism or universal salvation
If your mind is open and you can study with humility, you will see two major issues with most of our modern English bible translations. Typically this can only happen if God has given you eyes to see.
These mistranslation issues can be seen quite easily with a bit of study:
1. the 'hell' mistranslations - hell, hades, sheol, gehenna, unquenchable fire, undying worms, lake of fire -> these are misconstrued as some sort of eternal firepit where people are literally burning forever.
2. the 'forever/eternal' mistranslations - typically theses verses are referring to a certain time period and not literally forever. Don't confuse this with immortality
Once you realize these mistranslations exist, then it is easy to see the plethora of verses that talk about God saving all and restoring all things. We can go into study on this in detail if people desire, but I recommend looking first at a couple of sites that helped me:
These sites don't agree with each other on everything, but they do provide good studies on the problems with 'eternal hell' teaching. Its good to look at different viewpoints.
But you have to be open to seeing this. If you are someone who says people must suffer burning forever; and this is justice; and you don't see a problem with that; then you are probably not ready for this yet.
If you cannot endure sound doctrine but want to heap for yourself teachers to tell you what your itching ears want to hear, then these websites are for you.
There is a dude on the internet right now that is saying that there is a major mistranslation in the Bible and that the original text teaches us that we ought to eat cannabis.
So what? People can say anything they want, but if you don't study it for yourself you won't know the truth. Obviously that sounds dubious. But the way you offhand dismiss the possibility that maybe eternal hell doesn't exist is pretty startling. You WANT it to exist.
By the way this is a thread about Universalism, all aspects.
So maybe you would like to study the meaning of the word translated as 'hell' and understand where it came from? Go through every verse that uses the word 'hell' and see what you come up with.
Here are some very good studies as a starting point:
If you cannot endure sound doctrine but want to heap for yourself teachers to tell you what your itching ears want to hear, then these websites are for you.
This is your default response. For the readers of this thread, consider that justbyfaith is the one who has itching ears.
The reason i link those posts & sites is because they have scriptural proof to show that eternal hell is a myth. It is called studying. I can't repost entire articles here obviously, but I provide the information for those who wish to study. Obviously you do not wish to study and instead keep spouting your tired old lines claiming you are the only one who has sound doctrine.
Your so called sound doctrine concludes that Satan's wishes surpass God's desires, and forces God's hand to torment most of his creation eternally, meanwhile sin continues on forever. Wow. It's a bizarre belief that you defend so zealously.
Once you get to the point where belief in eternal torment is no longer tenable, usually one of the following things happens.
1. you become an atheist
2. you begin to consider what you were taught was wrong and consider alternatives like annihilationism or universal salvation
If your mind is open and you can study with humility, you will see two major issues with most of our modern English bible translations. Typically this can only happen if God has given you eyes to see.
These mistranslation issues can be seen quite easily with a bit of study:
1. the 'hell' mistranslations - hell, hades, sheol, gehenna, unquenchable fire, undying worms, lake of fire -> these are misconstrued as some sort of eternal firepit where people are literally burning forever.
2. the 'forever/eternal' mistranslations - typically theses verses are referring to a certain time period and not literally forever. Don't confuse this with immortality
Once you realize these mistranslations exist, then it is easy to see the plethora of verses that talk about God saving all and restoring all things. We can go into study on this in detail if people desire, but I recommend looking first at a couple of sites that helped me:
These sites don't agree with each other on everything, but they do provide good studies on the problems with 'eternal hell' teaching. Its good to look at different viewpoints.
But you have to be open to seeing this. If you are someone who says people must suffer burning forever; and this is justice; and you don't see a problem with that; then you are probably not ready for this yet.
Any reasonably minded person whether they are a believer or unbeliever when presented with the facts of the mistranslations, should have no issue accepting what's been presented to them. Why any christian would basically say, later translations are more reliable than the original, tells you everything you need to know.
I get that it is humbling to acknowledge you have believed wrong, especially if it has been many years that you've believed, but surely at the end of the day, it is light of the truth that we desire not the darkness of wrong believing and worse still clinging on to that darkness for dear life.
This is your default response. For the readers of this thread, consider that justbyfaith is the one who has itching ears.
The reason i link those posts & sites is because they have scriptural proof to show that eternal hell is a myth. It is called studying. I can't repost entire articles here obviously, but I provide the information for those who wish to study. Obviously you do not wish to study and instead keep spouting your tired old lines claiming you are the only one who has sound doctrine.
Your so called sound doctrine concludes that Satan's wishes surpass God's desires, and forces God's hand to torment most of his creation eternally, meanwhile sin continues on forever. Wow. It's a bizarre belief that you defend so zealously.
Yes, and my itching ears would love to believe that Universalism were the reality.
However, in understanding what the word of God says about eternal torments for those who reject God's only provision for forgiveness and sanctification, I cannot with intellectual honesty believe that everyone is going to eventually go to heaven.
Even if I 99% believed in that, the other 1% would lead me to warn people of the fires of hell until the cows come home.
I don't see how people can ultimately reject the kjv's rendering of such verses as Matthew 25:46 as though they are certain that is is a mistranslation; when there is the distinct probability that it is a correct translation.
How can you lead people astray the way that you do?
You are uncertain of whether or not the kjv is incorrect in its rendering; yet you carry on as if you were certain that it cannot be correct.
If I were you, if I saw an even 1% probability that it is correct, it would lead me to preach hellfire and brimstone as if it were the only truth. I would not want to take chances on leading someone astray so that they banked on Universalism and thus never receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. The distinct probability their rejection of Jesus will place them smack dab in the middle of hell is enough for me to never preach the idea that "all men will be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth".
Yes, and my itching ears would love to believe that Universalism were the reality.
However, in understanding what the word of God says about eternal torments for those who reject God's only provision for forgiveness and sanctification, I cannot with intellectual honesty believe that everyone is going to eventually go to heaven.
Even if I 99% believed in that, the other 1% would lead me to warn people of the fires of hell until the cows come home.
I don't see how people can ultimately reject the kjv's rendering of such verses as Matthew 25:46 as though they are certain that is is a mistranslation; when there is the distinct probability that it is a correct translation.
How can you lead people astray the way that you do?
You are uncertain of whether or not the kjv is correct in its rendering; yet you carry on as if you were certain that it cannot be correct.
If I were you, if I saw an even 1% probability that it is correct, it would lead me to preach hellfire and brimstone as if it were the only truth. I would not want to take chances on leading someone astray so that they banked on Universalism and thus never receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. The distinct probability their rejection of Jesus will place them smack dab in the middle of hell is enough for me to never preach the idea that "all men will be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth".
I see. You are playing the odds, "just-in-case". Its Pascal's wager again. Sigh.
You don't understand; I am not uncertain on the KJV rendering - NO - I am 100% certain that the KJV rendering is incorrect- because I have studied this for years; seeing the mistranslations with my own eyes; and because I understand all verses must be in harmony; and they must not compromise the character of God, who is love.
You also seem to be 'playing both sides', on the one hand it is God who predestines people to wrath, on the other hand its possible someone could lead another astray... or someone could chose their fate... even though it is God who is hardening hearts... you need to consider this more as you are engaging in doublespeak.
I see. You are playing the odds, "just-in-case". Its Pascal's wager again. Sigh.
You don't understand; I am not uncertain on the KJV rendering - NO - I am 100% certain that the KJV rendering is incorrect- because I have studied this for years; seeing the mistranslations with my own eyes; and because I understand all verses must be in harmony; and they must not compromise the character of God, who is love.
You also seem to be 'playing both sides', on the one hand it is God who predestines people to wrath, on the other hand its possible someone could lead another astray... or someone could chose their fate... even though it is God who is hardening hearts... you need to consider this more as you are engaging in doublespeak.
You could not have seen mistranslations with your own eyes because we no longer have the original manuscripts.
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