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The koine theion is the incense of Jehovah and with theioo is rooted in Theos.
The Lake of Fire is the incense of Jehovah rooted firmly in Theos. Make no mistake: our God is consuming fire; the Limne of Theos is consuming fire in which every last element of sin and iniquity is consumed: every last rotten bit!
The association of fire with purification in both Old and New Covenants is easily traceable.
In the Old Covenant the prophetic analogy of silver being purified by fire is classically representative of the purification theme of the Bible.
St. Paul, gets to the heart of the matter when he writes about every mans work being tried by fire, yet the man, himself, being saved.
***NOTE: "saved".
St. John, makes it a point to call the Lake of Pur/ the Lake of Fire, but also of brimstone, which is an old word for sulfur. Sulfur being a common agent of ceremonial purification in temples of worship in ancient times.
Destruction or purification?
Neither scripture nor science recognizes the destruction of anything in the sense of annihilation, that is, of anything being reduced to a state of absolute nothingness. Destruction does not render anything nonexistent, but rather incapable of carrying out its function, as in the destruction of a tank in warfare. The mass of metal is still there, but it can't function as a tank any longer.
Even if you were to vaporize the tank completely, yet, its intrinsic elements would still exist in other forms. Contrary to conventional theology, all things were not created from nothing, and none of the things that have been created will ever face nonexistence, and by that I mean nonexistence in any form. All created things are subject to change, change in form, but not subject to losing their intrinsic existence.
What we have in the process of purification by fire is, first, a separation of the object of purification from all that defiles it, all that is foreign to its intrinsic constitution, and then the removal of the corrupting element.
Fire, like judgment, so far from being the sinners portion ONLY, is the portion of all.
Like God's judgment it is not future merely, but present; it is already kindled, always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. I am come to send fire on the earth, for it is certain that He came as a Saviour.
Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, yes with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
The koine theion is the incense of Jehovah and with theioo is rooted in Theos.
The Lake of Fire is the incense of Jehovah rooted firmly in Theos. Make no mistake: our God is consuming fire; the Limne of Theos is consuming fire in which every last element of sin and iniquity is consumed: every last rotten bit!
The association of fire with purification in both Old and New Covenants is easily traceable.
In the Old Covenant the prophetic analogy of silver being purified by fire is classically representative of the purification theme of the Bible.
St. Paul, gets to the heart of the matter when he writes about every mans work being tried by fire, yet the man, himself, being saved.
***NOTE: "saved".
St. John, makes it a point to call the Lake of Pur/ the Lake of Fire, but also of brimstone, which is an old word for sulfur. Sulfur being a common agent of ceremonial purification in temples of worship in ancient times.
Destruction or purification?
Neither scripture nor science recognizes the destruction of anything in the sense of annihilation, that is, of anything being reduced to a state of absolute nothingness. Destruction does not render anything nonexistent, but rather incapable of carrying out its function, as in the destruction of a tank in warfare. The mass of metal is still there, but it can't function as a tank any longer.
Even if you were to vaporize the tank completely, yet, its intrinsic elements would still exist in other forms. Contrary to conventional theology, all things were not created from nothing, and none of the things that have been created will ever face nonexistence, and by that I mean nonexistence in any form. All created things are subject to change, change in form, but not subject to losing their intrinsic existence.
What we have in the process of purification by fire is, first, a separation of the object of purification from all that defiles it, all that is foreign to its intrinsic constitution, and then the removal of the corrupting element.
Fire, like judgment, so far from being the sinners portion ONLY, is the portion of all.
Like God's judgment it is not future merely, but present; it is already kindled, always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. I am come to send fire on the earth, for it is certain that He came as a Saviour.
Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, yes with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
Specifically, I would ask concerning the nature of fire in Matthew 13:41-42 and Matthew 13:49-50,
Why does fire produce wailing and gnashing of teeth if it is only merely spiritual?
Are you going to reduce wailing and gnashing of teeth to a parabolic meaning also?
I contend that wailing and gnashing of teeth has a literal meaning for us today.
Anguish can be felt physically and/or mentally (a physiological response), however, it may help in promoting normal or healthy, functioning. Please, try not to hyperventilate, while under stress or during the period of time that those ungodly thoughts are being removed from that soul and mind of yours, as I am sure it will cause you a great deal of distress; wailing and gnashing of those fangs/cuspids on the upper/lower jaws of yours.
How do the following passages apply to the doctrine of Universalism as it is purported by some of the posters on these boards?
Those who believe in Universalism, I ask you this question in hopes of provoking a sincere discussion as to your beliefs on the matter.
Mat 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 25:41, Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 13:41, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:49, So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 25:46, And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Pro 30:15, The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:
Pro 30:16, The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.
Isa 33:14, The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Luk 12:4, And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Luk 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
I believe the Scriptures you posted are speaking to the extreme fundamentalist such as yourself. If you were serious about what it is you believe that might be a different story. However, I have seen you ignore various responses merely to redundantly post various quotes as you have herein. So, it would be a waste of time and effort. Although I do applaud R2L for leading you in the direction of hope beyond hell.
"Even in judgment, God is loving and merciful. Hell fire is spiritual, not literal, and NOT forever!"
Did you know in the Greek a Lake (Limne/Limen) is a haven, a safe harbor through the idea of nearness of shore, where people will no longer be tossed to, and fro with ever wind of man's doctrines. What are you going to do - when you find out that you missed the boat (ye, of little faith) and have followed wolves in sheep's clothing, seeking whom they can devour - while leading people astray?
Going through fires feels a lot like what it means to cleave to God. We know that God wants us to wait upon Him. He teaches us something about His idea of patience, and self-control. He doesn't fear anything, and His decisions are not made out of weakness. He has wisdom. The person of God is not driven by what He perceives falsely that He needs or wants.
I really like the attributes of God, His love toward others and toward Himself. I want to have the right balance of that in my own life. But it's not in me unless I surrender. God won't force me to want to be like Him. I have to listen. I have to pay attention, also, to the world around me. I have to be curious about God.
One of the big things He has been teaching me lately is how to overcome not getting what I needed from life before now. He has been teaching me what I really needed then and what that means now, and how to move toward healing on that front. It is about love.
I think there is a very good chance that those people who had no relationship with God will have to go through this fire. They are not going through it now, except as God can reach them through the demands of society. It has never been God's way to just create people whole, with all of their knowledge and wisdom intact. He didn't do that with Adam. Noah went through the flood. Why would people think He would do it with those raised from the dead?
But as for why the Lake of Fire is described the way it is, ominously, I think that is because of the vast difference between what goes in and what comes out. In fact, you could say that what goes in doesn't come out. That wouldn't be saying that God condemned those people. It would be saying something quite else.
Last edited by Am I a Prophet; 05-27-2021 at 04:43 AM..
Reason: the writing process
Going through fires feels a lot like what it means to cleave to God. We know that God wants us to wait upon Him. He teaches us something about His idea of patience, and self-control. He doesn't fear anything, and His decisions are not made out of weakness. He has wisdom. The person of God is not driven by what He perceives falsely that He needs or wants.
I really like the attributes of God, His love toward others and toward Himself. I want to have the right balance of that in my own life. But it's not in me unless I surrender. God won't force me to want to be like Him. I have to listen. I have to pay attention, also, to the world around me. I have to be curious about God.
One of the big things He has been teaching me lately is how to overcome not getting what I needed from life before now. He has been teaching me what I really needed then and what that means now, and how to move toward healing on that front. It is about love.
I think there is a very good chance that those people who had no relationship with God will have to go through this fire. They are not going through it now, except as God can reach them through the demands of society. It has never been God's way to just create people whole, with all of their knowledge and wisdom intact. He didn't do that with Adam. Noah went through the flood. Why would people think He would do it with those raised from the dead?
But as for why the Lake of Fire is described the way it is, ominously, I think that is because of the vast difference between what goes in and what comes out. In fact, you could say that what goes in doesn't come out. That wouldn't be saying that God condemned those people. It would be saying something quite else.
There is only one individual who is NOT "hurt" by the 2'nd Death a.k.a. (Lake of Fire).
That individual belongs to an exclusive membership known as an overcomer. They cannot be hurt due to being hurt over and over and over again in Father's mighty dealings of love and grace.
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”
Overcomer = nikaō =
To conquer/ become victorious.
To carry off in victory.
Over every foe/ temptation/ persecution.
Hurt = adikeō =
To hurt or damage or harm.
“It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply." ~A.W. Tozer
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