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Rev 22:3 No longer will there be a curse upon anything.
I can remember reading this verse as a kid, as I used to quite often read through Revelations trying to make heads or tails of it. At the time it gave me some comfort, but it didn't make sense to me with the threat of hell and the lake of fire always looming.
Later near the end of the chapter (almost the end of the entire bible) we learn:
Let anyone who wishes take the water of life as a gift.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be a curse upon anything.
I can remember reading this verse as a kid, as I used to quite often read through Revelations trying to make heads or tails of it. At the time it gave me some comfort, but it didn't make sense to me with the threat of hell and the lake of fire always looming.
Later near the end of the chapter (almost the end of the entire bible) we learn:
Let anyone who wishes take the water of life as a gift.
Of course Pascal's wager is flawed. You didn't read what I wrote.
Let me make it even simpler. It is flawed because it presupposes there are only 2 outcomes, and that is all that matters:
1. God exists and will eternally punish unbelievers
2. God doesn't exist
Therefore it's better to believe, but only if there are exactly these two outcomes. The flaw is IGNORING the multitude of other possibilities. Example, since it is a 'wager' or 'bet' on the best outcome, we must consider other possibilities:
3. God exists but despises liars, therefore eternally punishes people who lie about their belief due to the above mentioned 'wager'. Remember, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire.
4. Perhaps some other deity/religion is the correct one - should we make a 'bet' on those religions just in case?
etc.
No - the best answer is always to determine the truth as best as possible and trust that God is not a ruthless tyrant. We should not be taking 'bets' just-in-case. In fact what you propose turns many people away from God/Christ as most people realize the injustice of a proposed endless punishment. So this is doing more harm than good.
Good punishment is always remedial in nature and for correction, why do you presume God would not want to correct people? After all scripture tells us God will reconcile all things - but you don't believe this.
Yes, I would say that Pascal's wager is enough reason to seek to cultivate faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for you since you cannot simply will yourself to believe, or say that you believe when you really don't (as all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire).
I don't think that any other religion / deity threatens everlasting torments on those who don't believe in them, so, as concerning #4, betting on YHWH is still the safest bet.
But of course it is not something that you bet on.
Pascal's wager is given as a motivation to consider the claims of Christianity.
The thing that convinces me of the Christian faith....the fact that there is an empty tomb in Israel....not necessarily the fact that God threatens everlasting torments on those who won't believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
I'm reading over my old posts from 10+ years ago, found another good verse:
NIV:
Rev 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God's wrath is completed.
NLT:
Rev 15:1 Then I saw in heaven another marvelous event of great significance. Seven angels were holding the seven last plagues, which would bring God’s wrath to completion.
Amplified:
Rev 15:1 THEN I saw another wonder (sign, token, symbol) in heaven, great and marvelous [warning of events of ominous significance]: There were seven angels bringing seven plagues (afflictions, calamities), which are the last, for with them God's wrath (indignation) is completely expressed [reaches its climax and is ended]
God's wrath is completely expressed and ends!
Makes sense since God's judgments are so people will learn righteousness, and thus be able to be reconciled back to God - so that God ultimately will be all in all. It truly is a glorious message!
I guess it would follow that the lake of fire, spoken of afterward, as being eternal torment (Revelation 20:10, 21:8), is not the wrath of God (but rather is His justice).
Which does not mean that it is any less painful or that in it there is not "wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50).
Part of the hinderance of understanding universal salvation is the 2 major categories of mistranslations throughout most bibles - the 'hell' mistranslations and the 'forever/eternal' mistranslations. Here is one simple example.
Look at this verse in the KJV:
Exodus 21:6 ... and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Now compare in the NIV:
Exodus 21:6 ... He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
Good question Its not really literal water, though some should argue that since they think the lake of fire is literal fire for torturing a spiritual body...
It is the holy spirit and Christ himself. Revelations is highly symbolic.
Good question Its not really literal water, though some should argue that since they think the lake of fire is literal fire for torturing a spiritual body...
It is the holy spirit and Christ himself. Revelations is highly symbolic.
What I said it was unconditional love and acceptance. I posted Roberta Flack's Killing me Softly as what was given to the woman at the well. What are your thoughts on that?
Part of the hinderance of understanding universal salvation is the 2 major categories of mistranslations throughout most bibles - the 'hell' mistranslations and the 'forever/eternal' mistranslations. Here is one simple example.
Look at this verse in the KJV:
Exodus 21:6 ... and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Now compare in the NIV:
Exodus 21:6 ... He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
Now tell me the KJV is inerrant.
The kjv is inerrant.
If the person lives for ever, being a servant for the rest of his life will = for ever.
If the person lives for ever, being a servant for the rest of his life will = for ever.
Wow just wow. I literally showed you a verse that is in error, but you are blind jbf.
Here is another.
YLT
Matt 23:24 `Blind guides! who are straining out the gnat, and the camel are swallowing.
NIV
Matt 23:24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
NKJV
Matt 23:24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
KJV
Matt 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
At least the New KJV corrected the error in the KJV for this verse. If you understand the meaning of the verse, you will know straining 'at' a gnat makes no sense.
What I said it was unconditional love and acceptance. I posted Roberta Flack's Killing me Softly as what was given to the woman at the well. What are your thoughts on that?
Unconditional love and acceptance -> Killing me softly? not sure
Unconditional love and acceptance -> Killing me softly? not sure
Yeah, it's probably whatever you need it to be.
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Its not really literal water, though some should argue that since they think the lake of fire is literal fire for torturing a spiritual body... 
