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HR 4213 -- in cloture, so this bill requires 60 votes to pass
HR 5618 -- cloture not invoked, so only a simple majority necessary to pass.
But instead of Reid just having 5618 voted on NOW, he chooses to wait an see if 4213 can get 60 votes with all the other provisions. I blame the Repubs more than the Dems, but this ain't right either......but though I thoroughly respect that diorgirl knows these kinds of issues 100x more than I, I still somehow think it's not as simple as that with 5618, the media would be all over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutz1012
This is exactly what I've been saying...If it should pass, the whole saga will start all over again in November...then it will be "I have no money for christmas presents for my kids, family, heat, etc."
But at least if it passes now there's 3-4 months for people to realize that given all the problems passing it now, this may be it. My main objection to this whole thing is that people had the "rug pulled out from them" when they were pretty much told all along that will not happen not that it should go on forever (but even in November, with the economy as it is, I'd say start to scale it back, like maybe extend another six months but drop a tier, maybe in late 2011 extend and drop another Tier, etc......you can't just go from 99 to 26 in one shot). This passes, I fully understand that I had plenty of time to prepare for this (and in November I'll be a 99er to boot, but again I'm not complaining because when I first went on UI, it wasn't 99 weeks yet and I never expected it to be extended this long, I'm grateful we have two years of UI in this sick economy)
OK they dont spend everything gets worse, they do spend things stay even and the deficit gets slightly worse. I think moderately spending is the way to go at this point.
Unless 4213 gets a must have Republican not paid for the rich tax cut it doesn't stand a chance of ever passing. Still dont get why they are only extending benefits till the end of Nov. either. That means probably 2 months of people falling off the rolls again at the end of the year since they will be done for the year in Oct.
OK they dont spend everything gets worse, they do spend things stay even and the deficit gets slightly worse. I think moderately spending is the way to go at this point.
Exactly! What they need to do is bang their heads together and figure out the right combination......yes there is a problem with overspending, but if you don't spend at all, you still make the deficit worse because of the loss of tax revenue and the increase in things like welfare food stamps and medicare payments, etc.
I do think some of the stimulus was a pork-laden disappointment, but at the same time I think Jon Kyl's idea that it's all about absolute spending cuts (and sickly, tax cuts at the same time, makes no sense) and nothing else is way off base too!
You have to remember, both sides are in this to get reelected.
Reid will not invoke cloture unless its his last straw, because he wants the American people to see that the Dem's are trying to pass it with a bipartisan vote, not with cloture when a majority isn't needed. This way its looks good in November that the Dem's just didn't ram legislation down the Repub's throats. The Repub's are going to say no to any and all things and this will be their ticket to the unemployment line.
OK they dont spend everything gets worse, they do spend things stay even and the deficit gets slightly worse. I think moderately spending is the way to go at this point.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't really. But things don't necessarily "stay even" if you keep spending. Sure, $33 billion is a mere scratch on the surface, but it doesn't seem to stop there, as they pass spending bill after spending bill...and that's going back to Bush's two terms. Ultimately in order to break us out of this high debt funk, and as the debt commission has been hinting, we will need to raise money, via tax increases/etc, in the end. And that's not exactly what Obama campaigned on and it's not exactly what should be done during a tough recession. In fact, it may only prolong the recession and hinder any hope for a job recovery since companies feel even more pressure.
Instead of giving billions/trillions of dollars to fund meaningless wars or international relief efforts, perhaps our government could invest that money into our own broken-down infrastructure/economy. When it's fixed, THEN help other countries. It's hard to help others when things aren't good in your own space. I also don't see any other countries helping us out with this massive mess, so why don't we try to channel our "inner-Switzerland" and get our **** together??
Damned if you do, damned if you don't really. But things don't necessarily "stay even" if you keep spending. Sure, $33 billion is a mere scratch on the surface, but it doesn't seem to stop there, as they pass spending bill after spending bill...and that's going back to Bush's two terms. Ultimately in order to break us out of this high debt funk, and as the debt commission has been hinting, we will need to raise money, via tax increases/etc, in the end. And that's not exactly what Obama campaigned on and it's not exactly what should be done during a tough recession. In fact, it may only prolong the recession and hinder any hope for a job recovery since companies feel even more pressure.
What I don't get about all this tax stuff is the economy did fine with the Reagan tax rates, which were the lowest in history to date then? We cannot lower taxes forever down to zero, and we do need revenue, so what is wrong with taxation at Reagan era levels (which basically is what I think simply raising the top tax rate from 35 to 39 percent is at least in terms of income tax (don't know as much about capital gains and business taxes), as far as I know the only reversal of the Bush tax cuts the Dems and Obama want to do).
I can understand that even if the rich "can pay it" the Carter era tax rates (50% of your income and more) were criminal, and maybe if done right a "flat tax" would be fairest (the rich still pay more than the poor, they just don't pay a bigger percent of their earnings than the poor's earnings), but we as citizens due need to fund our government, so a government with no taxation is no government at all (and obviously, a bankrupt one).
Tanner noted that Manchin also has a problem regarding the interim senator he will soon be choosing, to fill the seat until after the November election.
"Everything that senator does will reflect on Manchin," Tanner said.
Given that West Virginians disapprove of what the Democratic leadership is doing in Washington, and that they usually like their Democrats to be the more conservative type, the short-term replacement for Byrd would hurt Manchin's own candidacy if he or she behaves too much like other Democrats, Tanner explained.
"He will want to appoint someone who doesn't draw much attention, the blandest person he can find," Tanner said.
Once Manchin chooses the interim senator, which he could do as early as Thursday, the appointee must be inducted into the Senate.
"That could theoretically be done in a matter of minutes," Tanner said. "A swearing in ceremony at the Senate and the new Senator can take his seat."
But would the Democrats then have the votes needed to pass the unemployment insurance extension and the financial reform package?
Not necessarily. Reid had two Republican senators onboard for the UI extension vote on June 30 - Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe, both of Maine. But Tanner said both the senators are balking now and Reid may not be able to count on their votes.
Reid had two Republican senators onboard for the UI extension vote on June 30 - Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe, both of Maine. But Tanner said both the senators are balking now and Reid may not be able to count on their votes.
thats from yesterday when they were saying if reid adds to the bill they wouldn't vote for it. They aren't saying they aren't going to just if reid tries to add stuff
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