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I'm figuring Reid has to invoke cloture AGAIN on 4213 for some reason. Their can't be a simple majority vote on it, but I don't know why.
Let's say, for some reason (i.e., say Snow and Collins change their minds) 4213 doesn't pass.
Then we assume Reid would reach for 5618, which requires one more read, then gets sent to the Senate Finance Committee for some formal approval and then comes back to the Senate for vote.
Isn't is just as possible, as with 4213, that Senators can decide to debate on 5618 just as they did on 4213, which would then NOT allow Reid go for a simple majority vote? Wouldn't he then be required to invoke cloture on 5618 in order to stop the debating (or limit the debate to 30 more hours, technically)?
It seems to me if 4213 falls through for any reason, there's nothing stopping the Repubs from filibustering 5618 and forcing Reid to invoke cloture, and cloture would not get invoked.
I'm not trying to sound "doom"ful (great word, huh!?), I'm just trying to figure this all out. There's no guarantee that Snow and Collins will once again vote "Aye" on 4213.
Reid has SO many times said he's got the votes, invoked cloture, then failed. If the Repubs want him to fail again, all they'd have to do is scrap 4213 and filibuster 5618.
Someone please tell me where my faulty rationalizing is here, because I want to see it!
I'm figuring Reid has to invoke cloture AGAIN on 4213 for some reason. Their can't be a simple majority vote on it, but I don't know why.
Let's say, for some reason (i.e., say Snow and Collins change their minds) 4213 doesn't pass.
Then we assume Reid would reach for 5618, which requires one more read, then gets sent to the Senate Finance Committee for some formal approval and then comes back to the Senate for vote.
Isn't is just as possible, as with 4213, that Senators can decide to debate on 5618 just as they did on 4213, which would then NOT allow Reid go for a simple majority vote? Wouldn't he then be required to invoke cloture on 5618 in order to stop the debating (or limit the debate to 30 more hours, technically)?
It seems to me if 4213 falls through for any reason, there's nothing stopping the Repubs from filibustering 5618 and forcing Reid to invoke cloture, and cloture would not get invoked.
I'm not trying to sound "doom"ful (great word, huh!?), I'm just trying to figure this all out. There's no guarantee that Snow and Collins will once again vote "Aye" on 4213.
Reid has SO many times said he's got the votes, invoked cloture, then failed. If the Repubs want him to fail again, all they'd have to do is scrap 4213 and filibuster 5618.
Someone please tell me where my faulty rationalizing is here, because I want to see it!
Thanks!
(1) HR 4213 is still in cloture -- Reid reserved the right to bring up the bill again in that state at the end of the last vote.
(2) If HR 5618 is delayed by filibustering, Reid can invoke cloture on that bill as well.
(3) However, since HR 5618 is a stand-alone, a vote against HR 5618 can only be interpreted as a vote against unemployment benefits. Politically that can be used by both sides -- that Republicans didn't care enough for the unemployed to just vote for the extension; that Democrats are continuing to run up the deficit.
(4) At this time, there is no guarantee that an extension of benefits will pass via either HR 4213 or HR 5213.
Maybe b/c it has other things in it he would like to see passed??? Just a guess...THis may drag on for weeks if continues to push HR4213 simply b/c it has been a problem all along.
HR 4213 also contains about $24 billion in Medicaid funding for states to provide health care for low-income Americans. Most states have already factored those dollars into their budgets (as of July 1, 2010), so the governors are putting enormous pressure on Reid to get those programs passed as well.
Where is this nonsense about 4213 coming up again? Please link an article? I have seen nothing to the fact that they are even talking about this bill anymore. Its already known it will not pass as it has ZERO Republican support. I'm really confused on why I have been seeing it here again as of recent?
Where is this nonsense about 4213 coming up again? Please link an article? I have seen nothing to the fact that they are even talking about this bill anymore. Its already known it will now pass as it has ZERO Republican support. I'm really confused on why I have been seeing it here again as of recent?
We are going by what Diogirl said. Page 67 of this thread....that's where it's coming from.
We are going by what Diogirl said. She mentioned 4213 on the Part 2 thread that was closed last night. Refer to that thread and you will see where it's coming from.
Yea, I saw it there but have seen no evidence on any website talking about 4213 anymore. Only thing we have seen talked about is 5618 and a vote on it next week. Just confused why people are talking about 4213 which in all intents and purposes is a dead bill since it has NO Republican support.
Where is this nonsense about 4213 coming up again? Please link an article? I have seen nothing to the fact that they are even talking about this bill anymore. Its already known it will now pass as it has ZERO Republican support. I'm really confused on why I have been seeing it here again as of recent?
"Its already known it will now pass as it has ZERO Republican support."-- I have no idea what you mean by this. "Nonsense?" The fact is that there have been myriads of articles about Reid's next step on unemployment benefits. He has confirmed that he will bring HR 4213 before the floor of the Senate AGAIN on Tuesday after he has the 60th vote he needs (when the late Senator Robert Byrd's seat is filled).
The articles do not specify the number of the bill because it is currently the only bill in the Senate that includes unemployment benefits -- AND (a) is in cloture, AND (b) requires a 60th vote.
It is not unusual for the political press not to continually repeat a bill's number after it is well known for the programs it includes.
And whether or not you think the bill is dead, Reid is bringing it back to the Senate floor next week.
HR 4213 has gotten 57 votes time and time again. It might get 58 now with Munchkin's appointee. At best.
If Reid continues to push 4213 instead of 5618, he is a sadist using the unemployed's suffering as his bargaining chip.
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