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I don't know why any of this would be a surprise to anyone. We've known since early 2020, before quarantine even, that there were likely to be mutations. From day 1 with the vaccine, we knew that the vaccine was not going to be 100% effective, would likely lose immunity over time, and was at risk for new variants that could evade vaccinations, especially with such disparity globally in who has access to the vaccine. Delta and Lambda have incubated in areas of the world that have not had the level of access to vaccines that we do in the US. None of this is a surprise.
Sure, we were hopeful about being past this, but we're still in it and will likely be in it for the next few years. Again, not a surprise and what experts have been saying from the beginning.
Personally, I chalk this up to the disinformation that people have been suckered into. If people actually understood the risks of the virus, if they realized the death toll was real and the reports of serious ongoing complications are real, if they understood that public health methods actually work and are not just a conspiracy of Nazi mind control, then they wouldn't value "freedom" from such mild sacrifices over their own health and that of the rest of their community. Many people are simply in the dark because they've absorbed far too many "alternative facts" to understand what's actually happening.
Most resistance I see stems from the “science” being something associated with liberal/democratic ideals, and the resistance from conservatives who absolutely loathe anything associated with the dem party. Unfortunately I know quite a few like this. A Dem could invent the cure for cancer, and these folks would find a conspiracy theory in it somehow.
It pretty much boils down to “the Democrats are trying to take/maintain control” so we can’t trust anything they say. You have a few influential voices who are throwing fuel on the fire as well and people are buying it, all while directing their anger across the aisle uttering various inaccuracies regarding specific policies.
I never understood politics until I had children and experienced the power struggle that is telling a kid they need a coat on when it’s 30 degrees out. Classic example of “I know it’s probably the right thing to do, but I’m not going to do it just because you told me to”
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen plenty of resistance from ultra-liberal types as well. I guess my point is that nothing surprises me anymore regarding the politicizing of the virus because it’s all about politicians using opportunities to win votes and keep their opponents down than it is working together for the greater good of the country.
I wouldn't have been surprised if cases went up again this fall/winter but yes I am surprised by how much they've gone up this summer and amongst vaccinated people. As I said before - kids are not even back in school yet. If it's this bad now I'm nervous about the fall.
Most resistance I see stems from the “science” being something associated with liberal/democratic ideals, and the resistance from conservatives who absolutely loathe anything associated with the dem party. Unfortunately I know quite a few like this. A Dem could invent the cure for cancer, and these folks would find a conspiracy theory in it somehow.
It pretty much boils down to “the Democrats are trying to take/maintain control” so we can’t trust anything they say. You have a few influential voices who are throwing fuel on the fire as well and people are buying it, all while directing their anger across the aisle uttering various inaccuracies regarding specific policies.
I never understood politics until I had children and experienced the power struggle that is telling a kid they need a coat on when it’s 30 degrees out. Classic example of “I know it’s probably the right thing to do, but I’m not going to do it just because you told me to”
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen plenty of resistance from ultra-liberal types as well. I guess my point is that nothing surprises me anymore regarding the politicizing of the virus because it’s all about politicians using opportunities to win votes and keep their opponents down than it is working together for the greater good of the country.
@BostonMike7 - I always appreciate you sharing your thoughts because you keep things civil and you always make well-reasoned points. I would ask you to try to persuade your conservative friends that science isn't a political field, and for that matter, it's not a religious field either... some people claim that science is at odds with religion, but that's false - science deals with the natural world and what can be examined and readily and repeatably observed, while religion deals with the supernatural and matters of faith - the two aren't at odds, they are really orthogonal - one has little to do with the other. Science also doesn't belong to liberals or conservatives, it's about studying nature and explaining observations of the natural world with conceptual models that allow us to do useful things - like make batteries, or refrigerators, or plastics, or drugs, etc - which has little if anything to do with liberal or conservative philosophy. My two cents anyway.
For the first time in a few months I had to put on a mask to enter a store. CVS down the street from me now requires it again. Ok fine not a bit deal for me. Heck I just bought a pack at job lot and I get the money back in a gift card. Never thought I'd see the day where discounts on n95's would be something to look forward to.
I think the masks are coming back. I just don't know how much further beyond that it would go.
Um no. Plenty of businesses still operate. We knew things would gradually be running online. Even under Reagan the steps were in place to replace the physical with the virtual. email with mail (sorry usps), photos online vs published (sorry Kodak), online books (sorry borders), online music ( sorry tower records and countless others), online movies (sorry movie theater), news (sorry paperboy) etc. Manufacturing didn't shut down and landscaping didn't either. Many worked remote. Restaurants had takeout and outdoor dining which is still in place. It's easy to suggest that it was the same people that died but yet in Missouri there's some areas where family doesn't want to put covid on the death certificate (even though you get about 8k for the funeral). Dependent on government? If anything it's the private sector. When schools went online they had to scramble for equipment. All of the stimulus packages are meant to keep people spending. Obviously if they could do it on their own they wouldn't have given it out.
Please tell us all what you cannot do exactly and why it is the fault of the Us government. A country has the right to manage it's own borders so we can't really demand by force that countries open up.
As for masks sometimes I have one if it says large crowds but I was using PPE long before covid. I literally just vacuumed 2 lbs of dust from my basement. I'm not breathing that in!
Shoe stores and barbers were not allowed to open because of the governor's orders. They destroyed businesses like restaurants. The state has no right to shut down businesses. These people working at the restaurants had to go on unemployment because of the state's decision. Some businesses refused to close and got fined. It was a violation of the constitution.
Going on unemployment is being dependent on the government. This was all done by the state. Then they added a moratorium that put landlords in debt because their tenants were not paying rent. The state caused most of the chaos. They should have kept businesses open. The rumor is they want to get people in a universal income where most people do not work so you can become dependent on the government. Then the government can use that income dependant on whether you are willing to comply. Judge Napolitano said what happened was a violation of the constitution. You heard the saying." the cure is worse than the disease."people were making more on unemployment than working. so many businesses went out of business and they picked and chose what businesses would be allowed to stay open usually big corporation businesses were allowed to stay open while small businesses were forced to close without compensation from the government.
Last edited by justyouraveragetenant; 08-04-2021 at 11:45 PM..
Most resistance I see stems from the “science” being something associated with liberal/democratic ideals, and the resistance from conservatives who absolutely loathe anything associated with the dem party. Unfortunately I know quite a few like this. A Dem could invent the cure for cancer, and these folks would find a conspiracy theory in it somehow.
It pretty much boils down to “the Democrats are trying to take/maintain control” so we can’t trust anything they say. You have a few influential voices who are throwing fuel on the fire as well and people are buying it, all while directing their anger across the aisle uttering various inaccuracies regarding specific policies.
I never understood politics until I had children and experienced the power struggle that is telling a kid they need a coat on when it’s 30 degrees out. Classic example of “I know it’s probably the right thing to do, but I’m not going to do it just because you told me to”
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen plenty of resistance from ultra-liberal types as well. I guess my point is that nothing surprises me anymore regarding the politicizing of the virus because it’s all about politicians using opportunities to win votes and keep their opponents down than it is working together for the greater good of the country.
my opinion on lockdowns is not because it's political I believe they do more harm than good. I will not get vaccinated no matter what politician tells me to. this overreaction to the virus just does not make sense. its not political I don't wear a mask because I don't believe it works. it's dehumanizing and affects me psychologically and I know how unhygienic they really are. it's the science that makes me decide if this makes sense. science is meant to be debated. people can use "science" to lie and push lies. my favorite politician right now is governor Desantis and if he told me to get a vaccine I would not. if he told me to wear a mask I would not. its not so simple as you claim it to be.
I think it's more psychological than political. some blindly follow people but I certainly don't. if anyone is politicizing this virus it's the left not that conservatives don't do it to some degree too. sometimes the science might say well we might save some lives if we do A and B this might be true but risk assessment should be involved too. preserving freedom should also be a goal . science might say one action might help but the constitution does not go away just because some people get sick. i don't want the cdc dictating rules or laws. rights and freedoms are very underrated and covid made me realize this. like I said if this virus was as dangerous as Spanish flu then life would really be threatened and would accept some restrictions. its not so black and white. I am very libertarian but if there was a disease killing as much as Spanish flu I would accept some restrictions if those restrictions helped.
Australia has total authoritarianism now you can not go anywhere and they are using the excuse of covid with constant lockdowns when recently only 8 people died. that is pure evil. some believe this level of lockdowns and loss of rights is coming to the united states but maybe not we have way more gun owners.
Last edited by justyouraveragetenant; 08-05-2021 at 12:49 AM..
Gov Baker is mandating staff vaccinations at nursing homes by October 10. The residents will all be well beyond 6 months from their vaccinations. Germany is now giving nursing home residents Pfizer booster shots. Ditto France. The US press secretary refuted the WHO call for first world countries to not administer boosters.
Somethings like Ebola kills its hosts too efficiently and therefore has trouble sustaining it self in to a pandemic.
Generally, yes, they is still true. Unfortunately, it’s not as true as it once was and that doesn’t help matters.
First, science is separate from policy, although of course, science can inform policy. When it comes to this pandemic, I have seen lots of accusations that the scientists are playing politics but I've honestly seen no evidence that mainstream scientists are doing that. Those accusations have invariably come from politicians or political hacks in the media and have simply been lies, spin or at best, uniformed (but false) assertions.
I just brought up the example of the Delta variant and the predictions of what was likely to happen here, which have all been borne out. Many people called those "lies", "hysteria", "fear-mongering", suggested a conspiracy of mind control (again), and quite frankly, what I don't understand, is how *those* politicians and political hacks still have anyone's confidence when it's clearly shown that they simply didn't like the reality and were making false accusations??? Because the people who say that kind of junk do it over and over and over again, and yet they still seem to find a ready audience among the same people who believed them before!
It's not just scientists - hospital health care workers have been subject to a lot of degradation and accusations when they have described what they are seeing in our hospitals where Covid-19 patients are being treated. Despite the fact that hundreds of interviews have been done with doctors and nurses working in Covid wards around the country during times of heavy morbidity and mortality with broad agreement on the situation, despite the fact that they're working under enormous pressure and are just trying to let the public know what the real cost of the pandemic is, they are met with a barrage of false accusations that they are liars with some agenda, you even get many denials that they even *are* doctors and nurses, they get called "crisis actors" - by politicians and media political hacks who simply don't like the reality and are making false accusations.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 08-05-2021 at 04:45 AM..
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