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Old 06-12-2012, 11:12 AM
 
392 posts, read 635,872 times
Reputation: 258

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileDave View Post
You just admitted that the TMC was a very densely packed area. The TMC is over a thousand acres - larger than downtown Dallas. Anyone can look at a picture of the TMC and see it is more dense than Dallas. You solved our little dispute. Thank You.

"Exceeding one thousand acres in size, the center is larger than downtown Dallas." (1,300 to be exact).
One thousand acres is about 1 1/2 square miles. I suppose it is plausible to draw the boundaries of the TMC, but what are the boundaries of Downtown Dallas? The freeway loop? Why should that be the boundary?

In order to make any sense, you have to explain why your boundary is the only reasonable choice. Not saying you're wrong, just that you haven't adequately presented your case.

 
Old 06-12-2012, 11:16 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,221 posts, read 16,015,134 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by savanite View Post
Dallas also has 7 mile stretches of track that carry 40,000 people. If the Houston rail system extended into the suburban density to the extent that DART does, it would have a similar average ridership. Houston chose the Main street corridor, including the stretch between the TMC and downtown, for its high potential ridership in order to justify the system, and make it look as good as possible, but other corridors may or may not sustain that level.

There are many ways to create different averages out of the same body of data. Any of those averages may or may not be relevant to physical reality.
The University Line alone is estimated to double the current ridership, and that would be about ten miles. The Inner Loop lines in Houston alone will have more ridership than the DART system does currently. Dart extending out into the suburbs is one problem with it, and there is no way it would have been built without those suburban extensions first. The ridership per mile for Metro will go down of course, but it won't be one of the lowest for light rail like DART currently is.

List of United States light rail systems by ridership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DART will have more miles of track, while Metro will have more riders.
 
Old 06-12-2012, 11:19 AM
 
563 posts, read 913,880 times
Reputation: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by savanite View Post
Dallas also has 7 mile stretches of track that carry 40,000 people. If the Houston rail system extended into the suburban density to the extent that DART does, it would have a similar average ridership. Houston chose the Main street corridor, including the stretch between the TMC and downtown, for its high potential ridership in order to justify the system, and make it look as good as possible, but other corridors may or may not sustain that level.

There are many ways to create different averages out of the same body of data. Any of those averages may or may not be relevant to physical reality.
This is the difference. Houston will not keep building line after line without riders to justify the system. Houston has the same amount of growth inside the loop as it does outside. Unlike in Dallas.

“There are some things that we can directly control, and there are other things that we have very, very little control over,” Thomas said. “Our region is very different from many others. We are among the fastest-growing regions in America, and a lot of that growth is outside the DART service area.”

"Of 34 stations that were open before the Green Line came on board beginning three years ago, 15 serve fewer people now than in their first year of service. Of the stations where use has grown since they opened, most serve no more people today than they did eight to 10 years ago."
 
Old 06-12-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
6,790 posts, read 10,055,840 times
Reputation: 3496
Eventually, growth will happen around the DART stations and the ridership will grow. I was watching a documentary about America. One episode was taking about New York's subway system. A rail line was built from Manhattan to Queens but the borough was sparsely populated. There were absolutely no houses, only a rail line. Today, the area is highly populated and dense. The same rail line brought development to that area and the line is still in operation today.
 
Old 06-12-2012, 11:57 AM
 
563 posts, read 913,880 times
Reputation: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by savanite View Post
One thousand acres is about 1 1/2 square miles. I suppose it is plausible to draw the boundaries of the TMC, but what are the boundaries of Downtown Dallas? The freeway loop? Why should that be the boundary?

In order to make any sense, you have to explain why your boundary is the only reasonable choice. Not saying you're wrong, just that you haven't adequately presented your case.
The Dallas Central Business District. Downtown Dallas. I don't think I need to explain why this should be the parameter.

Downtown Dallas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://dallas-ecodev.org/SiteContent...act_sheets.pdf
 
Old 06-12-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
6,790 posts, read 10,055,840 times
Reputation: 3496
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileDave View Post
The Dallas Central Business District. Downtown Dallas. I don't think I need to explain why this should be the parameter.

Downtown Dallas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://dallas-ecodev.org/SiteContent...act_sheets.pdf
Downtown Dallas Inc. changed the the boundaries of Downtown. I still don't understand why they did it.

Districts | Downtown Dallas
 
Old 06-12-2012, 12:21 PM
 
392 posts, read 635,872 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileDave View Post
The Dallas Central Business District. Downtown Dallas. I don't think I need to explain why this should be the parameter.

Downtown Dallas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://dallas-ecodev.org/SiteContent...act_sheets.pdf
Yes, you do.
 
Old 06-12-2012, 12:31 PM
 
392 posts, read 635,872 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileDave View Post
This is the difference. Houston will not keep building line after line without riders to justify the system. Houston has the same amount of growth inside the loop as it does outside. Unlike in Dallas.
Well, that may not be the case with either Dallas or Houston. There will be riders for the University line, and there will be plenty of riders for the Orange line between DFW airport and downtown.

Also, do you really believe that Houston inside the loop added 600,000 people between 2000 and 2010? Yes, it did grow, but your facts are way off.

Personally, I take an equal position between DFW and Houston.. They're both great metros in their own way.

In your case, you can't be accurate in view of your obvious bias. You're blind to the shortcomings of Houston and the assets of Dallas, whereas both metros have their assets and shortcomings. So what is the value of your posts?
 
Old 06-12-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,498 posts, read 27,104,168 times
Reputation: 4890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallaz View Post
Eventually, growth will happen around the DART stations and the ridership will grow. I was watching a documentary about America. One episode was taking about New York's subway system. A rail line was built from Manhattan to Queens but the borough was sparsely populated. There were absolutely no houses, only a rail line. Today, the area is highly populated and dense. The same rail line brought development to that area and the line is still in operation today.
You guys literally have stops out in the middle of open fields that have been that way ever since Dallas & Irving were farming towns.

When is this "growth" supposed to happen? Las Colinas's CBD is a shell of its former self & I don't think re-doing 114 will help spur much growth along there any time in the near furture. Is DART still going to connect with that abandoned commuter train in Las Colinas?
 
Old 06-12-2012, 01:07 PM
 
229 posts, read 306,354 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Matt View Post
You guys literally have stops out in the middle of open fields that have been that way ever since Dallas & Irving were farming towns.

When is this "growth" supposed to happen? Las Colinas's CBD is a shell of its former self & I don't think re-doing 114 will help spur much growth along there any time in the near furture. Is DART still going to connect with that abandoned commuter train in Las Colinas?
What other stops would you be referring to, that are in the middle of open fields?
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