Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
IRVING — It could be called the "train to nowhere," or perhaps the "loneliest DART station in North Texas."
The new Irving Convention Center light rail station stands largely isolated — surrounded by empty fields.
“Had the economy not done what it did, we’d see more on the ground right now,” said Maura Gast, executive director of Irving’s Convention and Visitors Bureau.
As workers prepare for the opening of the first segment of DART's Orange Line extension, planned development surrounding one of its stations has yet to materialize. The glistening concrete platform simply empties into muddy fields.
By now, city leaders hoped the rail station — near Irving’s new convention center — would be surrounded by a dense urban development that included a plaza, hotel, and restaurants.
The $250 million Las Colinas Entertainment Center, to be built by the city and a private developer, was envisioned to connect the rail station to the convention center.
The entertainment development has been saddled with controversy and funding troubles. Investigations have unearthed accusations of mismanaged funds. The troubled project now faces an August deadline to find financing.
Irving Mayor Beth Van Duyne, a staunch opponent of the project, promised that even if the entertainment complex falls through, the land around that rail station won’t go to waste.
“We will have development; I’m not concerned,” she told News 8. “I’m hopefully optimistic we’ll complete a legitimate entertainment project.”
DART trains will start servicing the convention center station on July 30. There may be little surrounding the station, yet DART believes commuters will still use it. The agency expects the rail station to be fed by a bus terminal that sits a few hundred yards away... and across a busy highway.
“The city’s got plans for around our station,” said DART spokesperson Mark Ball. “So we put our building where we were asked to put it.”
Irving’s convention center is also expected to be a draw, even though it sits about one-third of a mile away.
“Right now, it’s a walk,” Gast conceded, saying a sidewalk through the field must still be built to get conventioneers to the station.
DART is also building its own pathways connecting the station to the bus terminal and the convention center.
Gast predicted that the station — with or without the surrounding development — will still be a hit with conventioneers, especially once the Orange Line reaches Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.
City leaders insist the area is still a big draw for rail riders, even without the development.
“If I could wave the magic wand and have it all done in full, I’d love that to happen,” Gast said. “We’re not there yet. It’s coming.”
E-mail jbetz@wfaa.com
Yep...I seen that on the news...Thats too bad for Irving,but its really not because the plans are still in place to build that entire area out...The economy is responsible for its delay but it will eventually pick back up(sooner than later) and they will build it out....No worries.
I suppose this is the reason Houston is twice the size of Dallas yet its still more dense & developed inside & outside of the inner loop. Its light rail line also has a higher ridership. Its city bus fleet is one of the largest in the nation. It has TWO, count it TWO international airports!!! Houston is easily the more cosmopolitan out of the two.
If we're talking metros, both cover almost the same exact land area.
DT Houston is the central "nerve" of the metro. Everything revolves around Houston.
Dallas is just one city in a multi-polar region known as the "Metroplex". Its importance is less than Houston's. At the rate Fort Worth is growing it will be larger than Dallas in the next 15-20 years.
Ill have to disagree on that one, I live in Houston "memorial area" and honestly been everywhere around Houston. Houston does not have the suburban type areas as Dallas, that's an area that is hard to beat "country wide" DFW will always be known for their suburbs and outter loop areas because they are so massive. Houston's inner loop though is more developed and I say this but if Dallas would build more South and west then it would have a chance . As of right now Houston in more developed inner loop.
As far as Ft Worth being bigger in the next 15-20 years... I doubt Dallas would let that happen. If anything I think that they would work more together than apart as they do now. Ft Worth would probably be a district "sarcasm" didn't mean to hurt anyone who is from Ft. Worth. Yes your right Houston is the main focus in it's metro, but when people say where they are from "I hear this all the time" it's I'm the Metroplex or DFW, or if they say a town like Plano, Arlington, people would ask and they would answer Dallas.
Ill have to disagree on that one, I live in Houston "memorial area" and honestly been everywhere around Houston. Houston does not have the suburban type areas as Dallas, that's an area that is hard to beat "country wide" DFW will always be known for their suburbs and outter loop areas because they are so massive. Houston's inner loop though is more developed and I say this but if Dallas would build more South and west then it would have a chance . As of right now Houston in more developed inner loop.
As far as Ft Worth being bigger in the next 15-20 years... I doubt Dallas would let that happen. If anything I think that they would work more together than apart as they do now. Ft Worth would probably be a district "sarcasm" didn't mean to hurt anyone who is from Ft. Worth. Yes your right Houston is the main focus in it's metro, but when people say where they are from "I hear this all the time" it's I'm the Metroplex or DFW, or if they say a town like Plano, Arlington, people would ask and they would answer Dallas.
I know I said I wouldn't post again but this is kind of addicting like that game Whac-A-Mole, ever heard of it? Whenever you put one homer down another pops up.
You lost all credibility with me when you said you have lived in Houston and have never even posted in that forum. Only Dallas and Texas. You have NEVER lived in Houston.
You also said that DFW has a better restaurant scene than Houston which is an out right fabrication because Houston's is the only one who has ever been ranked nationally.
And yes, it is VERY possible that Ft. Worth can pass up Dallas because Dallas the city is just crawling along and letting its suburbs prop it up. Ft. Worth has like a 7% office vacancy rate and Dallas' is way up in the 20's.
IRVING — It could be called the "train to nowhere," or perhaps the "loneliest DART station in North Texas."
The new Irving Convention Center light rail station stands largely isolated — surrounded by empty fields.
“Had the economy not done what it did, we’d see more on the ground right now,” said Maura Gast, executive director of Irving’s Convention and Visitors Bureau.
As workers prepare for the opening of the first segment of DART's Orange Line extension, planned development surrounding one of its stations has yet to materialize. The glistening concrete platform simply empties into muddy fields.
By now, city leaders hoped the rail station — near Irving’s new convention center — would be surrounded by a dense urban development that included a plaza, hotel, and restaurants.
The $250 million Las Colinas Entertainment Center, to be built by the city and a private developer, was envisioned to connect the rail station to the convention center.
The entertainment development has been saddled with controversy and funding troubles. Investigations have unearthed accusations of mismanaged funds. The troubled project now faces an August deadline to find financing.
Irving Mayor Beth Van Duyne, a staunch opponent of the project, promised that even if the entertainment complex falls through, the land around that rail station won’t go to waste.
“We will have development; I’m not concerned,” she told News 8. “I’m hopefully optimistic we’ll complete a legitimate entertainment project.”
DART trains will start servicing the convention center station on July 30. There may be little surrounding the station, yet DART believes commuters will still use it. The agency expects the rail station to be fed by a bus terminal that sits a few hundred yards away... and across a busy highway.
“The city’s got plans for around our station,” said DART spokesperson Mark Ball. “So we put our building where we were asked to put it.”
Irving’s convention center is also expected to be a draw, even though it sits about one-third of a mile away.
“Right now, it’s a walk,” Gast conceded, saying a sidewalk through the field must still be built to get conventioneers to the station.
DART is also building its own pathways connecting the station to the bus terminal and the convention center.
Gast predicted that the station — with or without the surrounding development — will still be a hit with conventioneers, especially once the Orange Line reaches Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.
City leaders insist the area is still a big draw for rail riders, even without the development.
“If I could wave the magic wand and have it all done in full, I’d love that to happen,” Gast said. “We’re not there yet. It’s coming.”
E-mail jbetz@wfaa.com
That's Irving's fault. BTW this has nothing to do with Dallas or the Dallas Skyline.
Houston has just over 7 miles of rail while the daily ridership is almost 40,000. Dart has 10 TIMES that amount of rail (72) and is only double our daily ridership.
This means that Houston's ridership per mile makes it second in the country at 4,987 while Dallas is a measly 940. We build it and they come; you build it and nobody rides it. Kind of like your buildings downtown that are at a 77% capacity.
So, by my estimation, or that of a four year old, we can see that all Houston has to do is increase it's rail another seven miles - to 14 total - and we will surpass your daily ridership. The funny things is I think we will surpass it before we even get to 14 miles of rail.
Last edited by MobileDave; 06-12-2012 at 10:42 AM..
Honestly they are basically the same in that area....Houston DOES have more highrises throughout the city but they seem randomly placed in different areas giving a spaced out look. this is with the exception of the Galleria area ,TMC and Downtown. In Dallas we have fewer Highrises througout the city and the few clusters we do have seem spaced out as little bunches wich could give off that same spaced out feeling. This too is with exception of Uptown/Downtown. They are both developed suburbanly.
You just admitted that the TMC was a very densely packed area. The TMC is over a thousand acres - larger than downtown Dallas. Anyone can look at a picture of the TMC and see it is more dense than Dallas. You solved our little dispute. Thank You.
"Exceeding one thousand acres in size, the center is larger than downtown Dallas." (1,300 to be exact).
Its like you are arguing with yourself. The blue contradicts the red.
If multiple cities(DFW) share the same area as basically one(Houston)...Then it should be obvious that Houston will be bigger in every aspect. The bigness is being refered to the area alotted for Downtown Houston compared to the land area for Downtown Dallas.Bigger Downtown area= more streets to fill with people.If Houston has an equal amount of activity in its downtown as Dallas then no wonder its dead.Its like comparing 100 people in a backyard to 100 people on a football field. Which one do you think will feel the busiest??...Thats the reason Ft.Worth and Austin's downtowns feel alot busier than Dallas and Houston's.
And the green shows your poor attempt to use fort worth to take a jab at Dallas. But what you fail to realize is Ft.Worth's growth will do nothing but widden the gap that DFW has over the Houston area in population; causing Houston to become less and less important on a map of Texas to visitors....Pick your poison.
The blue does not contradict the red and the green is a real possibility. You are a true piece of work.
Houston has just over 7 miles of rail while the daily ridership is almost 40,000. Dart has 10 TIMES that amount of rail (72) and is only double our daily ridership.
This means that Houston's ridership per mile makes it second in the country at 4,987 while Dallas is a measly 940. We build it and they come; you build it and nobody rides it. Kind of like your buildings downtown that are at a 77% capacity.
So, by my estimation, or that of a four year old, we can see that all Houston has to do is increase it's rail another seven miles - to 14 total - and we will surpass your daily ridership. The funny things is I think we will surpass it before we even get to 14 miles of rail.
Dallas also has 7 mile stretches of track that carry 40,000 people. If the Houston rail system extended into the suburban density to the extent that DART does, it would have a similar average ridership. Houston chose the Main street corridor, including the stretch between the TMC and downtown, for its high potential ridership in order to justify the system, and make it look as good as possible, but other corridors may or may not sustain that level.
There are many ways to create different averages out of the same body of data. Any of those averages may or may not be relevant to physical reality.
The Dallas and Houston systems are of two different types. The Main street corridor line in Houston is a streetcar line designed to replace city buses. The Dallas system is limited stop rapid transit designed to carry suburbanites quickly into the city. Dallas uses buses to do what Houston does with it's streetcar line, and Houston uses buses to do what Dallas uses Light Rail Rapid Transit to do.
The Houston metro is slower over the same distance than DART. For example, the scheduled time between the West End station and the Lovers Lane station is 16 minutes. The Houston Metro takes 30 minutes between the UH downtown station and the Fannin South station. On the other hand, the Houston system has more stops and provides greater connectivity to the neighborhoods. Is this good or bad? Well, just like anything else in life, that depends.
Last edited by savanite; 06-12-2012 at 11:30 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yep...I seen that on the news...Thats too bad for Irving,but its really not because the plans are still in place to build that entire area out...The economy is responsible for its delay but it will eventually pick back up(sooner than later) and they will build it out....No worries
.
. The blue contradicts the red.
