Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Hampden: hotel, home, live in)

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

so cases are up but we should not make decisions on cases only on deaths. I know you are saying that when cases go up deaths go up but I think we should wait for that to happen first.

if this virus is never going anywhere we might accept it like the flu and just live our lives not worried about it with no regulations or restrictions or mandates.

it seems to me even if the vaccines work somewhat we will never fully get rid of covid-19.

i listen to a radio podcast and it was announced we might have these restrictions for 15 years. I will not play along. in fact, I am done with the masks either the stores let me in with no mask or they do my shopping for me. the masks are disgusting with bacteria on them even if you wash them.

does anyone know which stores did curbside pickup for groceries?

Apparently, you didn't actually read my post or look at the graphs!

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by msRB311

It feels worrisome that this is happening now and school hasn't even started back up yet. That's about a month away. Not to mention that many college campuses are opening up for the first time this fall. Who knows what's ahead.

Not trying to sow anxiety, and I can't accurately predict the future... but I think it's safe to say that barring some kind of heavy state govt directives to alter the course we're on, we will have increasing problems here in Mass over the next few months at least - we're already seeing that beginning. Certainly we should do better with 64% fully vaccinated than those states with 35-50% fully vaccinated, but with 64% vaccinated, we won't get away unscathed. We really want 90% fully vaccinated in the face of Delta, but even here, it appears there's too much vaccine refusal to ever get there. I haven't started wearing a mask in public again yet, but I think it won't be long now.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Apparently, you didn't actually read my post or look at the graphs!

Yes cases and deaths are trending up . They are no where near the peak that the graph shows.

[msRB311]

Well a good portion of the unvaccinated are kids who can't get vaccinated yet. I also think a lot of pregnant women are choosing not to get vaccinated. I've seen quite a few in stores wearing masks who are clearly pregnant and I have to assume they aren't vaccinated unless they're being extra cautious. DH and I went to a restaurant last night that was fairly crowded. A pregnant woman walked in with a mask on, waiting to be seated and once seated close to other tables took off the mask. Waitstaff was not masked. My DH kind of laughed and was like what was the point of her wearing the mask when she walked in only to sit down and take it off? That one kind of boggles my mind as well and it did all along. Whatever makes someone feel better I guess but if they're still that worried then they shouldnt be going to a restaurant at all IMO.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

Yes cases and deaths are trending up . They are no where near the peak that the graph shows.

Cases, hospitalizations and deaths are all trending up, and just in the order that you'd expect. Are you saying you don't mind increasing morbidity and mortality unless it gets worse than it's been at its peak?

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Cases, hospitalizations and deaths are all trending up, and just in the order that you'd expect. Are you saying you don't mind increasing morbidity and mortality unless it gets worse than it's been at its peak?

Unless you are looking at some other chart, the deaths aren’t trending up significantly enough to make quantitative statements (N is way too small).

Your last statement is exactly the problem I have with this whole debate. Of course there is an acceptable mortality rate greater than zero. There is no such thing as zero risk. There never has been. Once you admit that an acceptable limit exists the debate becomes a lot less black and white and a lot more realistic.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

Unless you are looking at some other chart, the deaths aren’t trending up significantly enough to make quantitative statements (N is way too small).

Your last statement is exactly the problem I have with this whole debate. Of course there is an acceptable morbidity rate greater than zero. There is no such thing as zero risk. There never has been. Once you admit that an acceptable limit exists the debate becomes a lot less black and white and a lot more realistic.

You can state anything you like, but I can't agree that the upward trend in deaths is insignificant - it's nearly doubled. Moreover, we know it *will* follow the trend in hospitalizations and cases that's out ahead of it - that's not rocket science to figure out. Cases are already up by 8x.

There are already over 600,000 Americans dead. There will be far more dead from Covid-19 over the course of the next year. You may find it acceptable, but I don't.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

You can state anything you like, but I can't agree that the upward trend in deaths is insignificant - it's nearly doubled. Moreover, we know it *will* follow the trend in hospitalizations and cases that's out ahead of it - that's not rocket science to figure out. Cases are already up by 8x.

There are already over 600,000 Americans dead. There will be far more dead from Covid-19 over the course of the next year. You may find it acceptable, but I don't.

well at this point it isn't really anyone's fault for these deaths. If the people aren't getting vaccinated and are going out to restaurants and not being careful (particularly people who already have health issues) then that's on them. If someone is vaccinated and still gets covid is that someone else's fault?

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

You can state anything you like, but I can't agree that the upward trend in deaths is insignificant - it's nearly doubled. Moreover, we know it *will* follow the trend in hospitalizations and cases that's out ahead of it - that's not rocket science to figure out.

There are already over 600,000 Americans dead. There will be far more dead from Covid-19 over the course of the next year. You may find it acceptable, but I don't.

Deaths in well-vaccinated Massachusetts. I looked up the graph on google and I don’t see any significant increase in deaths.

And we don’t know that the death curve will follow in the same way as before. You would think only if you believe the vaccine is 100% ineffective. All available evidence suggests the vaccine helps prevent death. Of course if you are allowed to say “Delta variant” to make all existing data meaningless (despite existing Delta variant data also saying that the vaccine is effective at preventing death).

And again, you act like it’s either I’m ok with all possible restrictions or I am ok with everyone dying. There is LOTS of room in the middle. I know that hardware limiting all cars to. 10mph would dramatically reduce car deaths, but I don’t someone who thinks that’s a bad idea is basically a mass-murderer.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by msRB311

well at this point it isn't really anyone's fault for these deaths. If the people aren't getting vaccinated and are going out to restaurants and not being careful (particularly people who already have health issues) then that's on them. If someone is vaccinated and still gets covid is that someone else's fault?

Of course there is the individual stupidity in not getting vaccinated. But the people who speak out to deny the death toll, the complications, who insist that masks, social distancing and vaccines don't work and are in fact dangerous, that all these tools for mitigating the pandemic are actually any evil conspiracy - *especially* those people who have a big megaphone because they are political leaders or media figures, are the reason that 100M+ Americans refuse to be vaccinated. If you hear this disinformation everywhere you turn, it's only natural to believe it.