Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Boston, Townsend: newspapers, crimes, schools)

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

But one party has made it their thing to argue that the vaccines don't work and are dangerous.

The same party that put a LOT of time/energy last spring & summer into telling people that chloroquine was the "miracle treatment" for COVID that the "LEFT doesn't want you to know about." I get that it's not all politics, but politics does heavily influence where people fall on the spectrum. It's true of the left too, but the COVID related things that some on the left will "blindly follow" like getting the vaccine, wearing masks, "double masking" (remember that one?), etc. are at least moderately helpful in most cases, and harmless worst case.

On the vaccine, one conservative family member posted on Facebook that they're not getting the vaccine because they had the Delta variant in June and they're not sold on the long term effects of the vaccine. I disagree (still worth getting the vaccine) and the anti-vax component is certainly politically influenced (at least in part), but it's not a crazy stance overall. She has the antibodies from having had the infection, so she's likely protected from another round of Delta even without the vaccine.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Most anti vax moms aren't anti vax for political reasons.

The biggest group of anti-vax folks that I come across aren't really right-wing Trumpers, but ultra liberal Anti-vax moms. It's amazing that the group that complains the most about helping their kids's with their 3rd grade homework on social media is now the most "educated" when it comes to vaccines and their perceived effects.

I saw a good post on social media where a person listed off an "item" with a detailed list of it's composition. It was a very scientific looking list with ingredients like "n-Propyl acetate" and "3-Methybutanol" and such.

As you can imagine, people chimed in stating they would never put such chemicals into their body, to which the OP countered "This is an apple".

People have no idea what's in Tylenol but they freely pop those pills after one too many drinks the night before even knowing that it damages your liver. Where's the social media outrage over that? "Oh, but but the risk is small and I have a bad headache". But wait a second? There is a 0.001% chance someone develops myocarditis from the vaccine so we should all stop taking it immediately?

*sigh*, at this point, outside of a few C-D posts on the subject, i just shut my mouth and worry about myself and my family. ~17 months into a pandemic, you are not going to change anyone's mind no matter how much of a logical argument you make.

[msRB311]

Yes, I worked with an ultra liberal mom who didn't want her kid to get all 3 MMR shots. I wonder how she feels about the covid vaccine. For many people who are more holistic they also don't want the vaccine.

[YevTK]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Well, I am sure that many people are afraid of the vaccines. But you can't separate it from politics. Vaccines have never been political before. But one party has made it their thing to argue that the vaccines don't work and are dangerous. There are of course exceptions, but the overall correlation is clear. Heck, until recently, some southern governors were touring and holding large political rallies where they urged refusal for vaccines and masking as "patriotic". Not coincidentally, their states lead the nation in problems. It's crazy.

Charlie Baker has bucked his party on the Covid-19 disinformation and conspiracy theories, and I am so grateful for that. He gets criticized and second-guessed to death here, but he's okay by me. He's taken it seriously from the start, and not once has he denied the science or made stuff up. I think he's been thoughtful about trying to walk a middle line on public health measures. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect competence and someone operating in good faith. The man gets an "A" from me!

I agree that Baker has done a good job.

While they oppose mandates for vaccines & masks, I am not aware of major GOP politicians claiming the vaccines are "dangerous". Trump, McConnel, Abbot, DeSantis etc are all vaccinated. Doesn't Trump take credit for Operation Warp Speed? I have heard DeSantis urging Floridians to get vaccinated.

In MA, it's certainty not being a GOP stronghold that keeps places like New Bedford at low vax levels.

[OutdoorLover]

It's a big country, and I am sure there are enough liberals with their heads up their butts w/regard to Covid-19 and the vaccines. But these views aren't being driven by the party leadership, whereas in the GOP, they are. Polls show clear partisan differences in who perceives the virus as a threat and who perceives public health methods as a threat - that's not a coincidence, it's consistent messaging from GOP leaders.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

*sigh*, at this point, outside of a few C-D posts on the subject, i just shut my mouth and worry about myself and my family. ~17 months into a pandemic, you are not going to change anyone's mind no matter how much of a logical argument you make.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I've even dialed back my posting in the CD COVID thread. I've heard all sorts of reasoning for not wanting to take the vaccine. Some are angry and politically motivated. These are the ones that go viral for both the visceral support and equally visceral opposition. But most were just people who are fearful or not fully-informed for a multitude of reasons. I genuinely feel for this group as they're at the highest risk level. They're regularly bombarded with both pro and anti-vax information and it seems like none of it is really processing anymore. A few months back I had a bit more of a "screw 'em" attitude toward anyone who was not vaccinated. I still have that for the angry/politically motivated crowd (and certainly won't try to argue against them), but I do feel for the folks who aren't trying to push a political agenda, they've just been inundated with the wrong messaging.

Frankly, I think the press's coverage of "breakthrough" cases is undermining efforts to reach the chunk of the population who is not currently vaccinated but could potentially be swayed. The hysterical coverage frequently glosses over the fact that the vaccines are extremely effective at preventing serious illness and death. While most articles will reiterate the point, it's buried beneath "RISING BREAKTHROUGH CASES" "DEATHS RISE AMONG FULLY VACCINATED" headlines that most just don't read beyond. I don't care about the "SEE! I told you the vaccines don't work!" crowd, they were never going to get it. But the current coverage could make someone on the fence say, "what's the point?" It's harmful.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by YevTK

I agree that Baker has done a good job.

While they oppose mandates for vaccines & masks, I am not aware of major GOP politicians claiming the vaccines are "dangerous". Trump, McConnel, Abbot, DeSantis etc are all vaccinated. Doesn't Trump take credit for Operation Warp Speed? I have heard DeSantis urging Floridians to get vaccinated.

In MA, it's certainty not being a GOP stronghold that keeps places like New Bedford at low vax levels.

But it's far worse than that, isn't it? They're not only opposed to mandates, they're blocking and suing entities who want to put them in place per their informed judgment. So regardless of what they may be saying, it's their actions that are speaking louder than their words and forming the sentiment among their backers.

Think of it as almost like preventing people stuck in a burning building from calling 911. An earlier poster referenced "crimes against humanity"...not far off when you consider this analogy.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I've even dialed back my posting in the CD COVID thread. I've heard all sorts of reasoning for not wanting to take the vaccine. Some are angry and politically motivated. These are the ones that go viral for both the visceral support and equally visceral opposition. But most were just people who are fearful or not fully-informed for a multitude of reasons. I genuinely feel for this group as they're at the highest risk level. They're regularly bombarded with both pro and anti-vax information and it seems like none of it is really processing anymore. A few months back I had a bit more of a "screw 'em" attitude toward anyone who was not vaccinated. I still have that for the angry/politically motivated crowd (and certainly won't try to argue against them), but I do feel for the folks who aren't trying to push a political agenda, they've just been inundated with the wrong messaging.

Frankly, I think the press's coverage of "breakthrough" cases is undermining efforts to reach the chunk of the population who is not currently vaccinated but could potentially be swayed. The hysterical coverage frequently glosses over the fact that the vaccines are extremely effective at preventing serious illness and death. While most articles will reiterate the point, it's buried beneath "RISING BREAKTHROUGH CASES" "DEATHS RISE AMONG FULLY VACCINATED" headlines that most just don't read beyond. I don't care about the "SEE! I told you the vaccines don't work!" crowd, they were never going to get it. But the current coverage could make someone on the fence say, "what's the point?" It's harmful.

You have people that will ignore 50 scientific papers that show that the vaccines are safe and effective, muttering about how science is just another religion and they must be doing it for the grant money via a conspiracy of corrupt puppet masters, etc... then when one paper comes out that seems to indicate the vaccines don't work if you look at it from the right (wrong) angle, those same people rush out to proclaim their belief in science and hold up this paper as clear scientific proof that the vaccines never worked. It is pathetic.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Frankly, I think the press's coverage of "breakthrough" cases is undermining efforts to reach the chunk of the population who is not currently vaccinated but could potentially be swayed. The hysterical coverage frequently glosses over the fact that the vaccines are extremely effective at preventing serious illness and death. While most articles will reiterate the point, it's buried beneath "RISING BREAKTHROUGH CASES" "DEATHS RISE AMONG FULLY VACCINATED" headlines that most just don't read beyond. I don't care about the "SEE! I told you the vaccines don't work!" crowd, they were never going to get it. But the current coverage could make someone on the fence say, "what's the point?" It's harmful.

If you think about it, so is rushing to put back the mandates after a few cases.

[NewfieMama]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I've even dialed back my posting in the CD COVID thread.

I've also dialed back, but for the opposite reason. I had covid and the mildest of mild symptoms--not even a fever. Seems the point of the vaccine isn't to stop the spread given the breakthrough cases, but to keep people out of the hospital. I'm not at risk of going to the hospital if I get covid again. My risk is really that I get it and spread it, but I could do the same if vaccinated. The only people I know right now who have covid are vaccinated and got it from vaccinated people.

Those who have had covid are bucketed as unvaccinated and I think that's wrong. It feels like we are overlooked based on THE AGENDA. That agenda is to get everybody vaccinated at all costs.

The CDC is still mandating that those who had covid get both doses even though every single medical paper published states that the second shot is virtually usesless to those who've had covid. Those who had covid + get one shot have stronger antibodies than those who were unvaccinated and get 2 shots. But that doesn't matter because to say it's ok to get 1 shot for a group of people would go against the agenda. Even if the science supports it.

If people are concerned about the LACK OF DATA we have for long-term effects of the vaccine, then that's a choice they are making based on science. I don't think the vaccines are unsafe, but I also understand if a person has weighed the risk of getting covid vs. wanting more vaccine data and are making a science-based decision based on those factors.