Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Florida: tenant, versus, safe)

[mp775]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

Wrong the vaccinated are dying of covid.....https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...-died/2435719/

Not wrong; I said Some vaccinated individuals do not seroconvert and are effectively unvaccinated, so the unvaccinated could really help their chances by getting vaccinated. The unvaccinated who would seroconvert but won't get vaccinated are killing vaccinated people who don't seroconvert. It should be a crime.

[Amontillado]

Anyone who says "The vaccinated are getting sick and dying just like the unvaxxed" is ignoring the fact that they're doing it in tiny numbers. As that NBC article says, "The death toll reflects 1.54% of the 5,166 confirmed breakthrough cases and 0.0018% of the 4,307,361 Bay State residents fully vaccinated as of July 20."

It's still a tragedy for the unlucky people who do suffer, but the chance of it happening to any individual is very small.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Amontillado

Anyone who says "The vaccinated are getting sick and dying just like the unvaxxed" is ignoring the fact that they're doing it in tiny numbers. As that NBC article says, "The death toll reflects 1.54% of the 5,166 confirmed breakthrough cases and 0.0018% of the 4,307,361 Bay State residents fully vaccinated as of July 20."

It's still a tragedy for the unlucky people who do suffer, but the chance of it happening to any individual is very small.

I think when you start introducing numbers and math to anything, it goes over a lot of peoples' heads unfortunately.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by massnative71

I think when you start introducing numbers and math to anything, it goes over a lot of peoples' heads unfortunately.

I see what he is saying no it's not going over my head I went up to calculus math. I suspect there are alot more cases of people getting infected that are vaccinated and are dying. In the UK I heard that 60 percent of the people there are in the hospital with covid are already vaccinated. The use astrazenica I believe for the most part . Iim going to investigate the UK claim. It's very easy to see what he is saying dealing with basic percentages that 80 people is nothing compared to the number infected and the population of mass. Then again let's take how many people infected before the vaccine came out and the death rate was still low in that situation

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by mp775

Not wrong; I said Some vaccinated individuals do not seroconvert and are effectively unvaccinated, so the unvaccinated could really help their chances by getting vaccinated. The unvaccinated who would seroconvert but won't get vaccinated are killing vaccinated people who don't seroconvert. It should be a crime.

It could be propaganda . It could be the vaccine is just not as effective as they say. All I hear are flip flops and lies out of the mainstream media.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

This is the horseshoe theory in action, where the rapidl anti-vaxx disinformation meets the panic-stricken disinformation and they both agree that the vaccine is useless at best and probably dangerous. It isn't. It is BY FAR the best weapon (besides perhaps time) against a virus.

There is evidence that vaccines are just about as effective against protecting from infection by the Delta variant; there are conflicting reports that the vaccine is less effective against the Delta variant. All available evidence agrees that the vaccine IS EFFECTIVE AT PREVENTING SERIOUS ILLNESS AND DEATH.

There is some evidence that unvaccinated people who suffer a mild case of COVID can have long-term side-effects. A recent study suggest as many as 14% could suffer some long-term effect. It should be added that some of the applicable conditions include fatigue and difficulty concentrating, two conditions that I would self-report despite never having had COVID. There is no evidence that long COVID affects the vaccinated. Of course, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, as anyone who is or wants others to be constantly panicked will remind you. There is, however, some evidence that vaccines reduce the impact of long COVID.

Risk-tolerance and activity level varies among people, so perfectly rational people will look at the available evidence and make drastically different choices. That's true of COVID, of driving, of flying, or really anything. Some people are willing to exchange the relatively low risk of COVID infection for the reward of not having to wear a mask, or being able to send their kids to school, or even going to a restaurant to eat. Whatever that risk was before, it is significantly lower with vaccination. Others, even vaccinated, either don't mind the mask, or don't have kids that they feel should be in school, or don't like going out to eat and will choose not to.

To make a long story short, yes, the vaccine will help you. No, it may not outright prevent you from being infected, but it significantly reduces both the likelihood and severity of infection. On the scale of how effective vaccines are, even against the delta variant, masks are in the noise. If you can, get vaccinated. If that's not enough and you can, stay away from other people. Possibly forever.

There is a claim that the vaccine prevents hospitalization and death but it's impossible to prove why? Well because some people who are unvaccinated only get mold symptoms or no symptoms at all. That vaccinated person that only got mild symptoms might of got those mild symptoms even if they were never vaccinated. In that case it's impossible to say what would have happened if that person was never vaccinated. Let's look at the tetanus shot we know it works because if you get tetanus you normally die.

This doctor explains that analogy around the 21 minute mark of this video ...
https://youtu.be/pyPjAfNNA-U if you try watching it on your phone his voice might be muted but on a computer or other device it should work it's also a excellent video on the pandemic and blood clots and the vaccine.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by mp775

Not wrong; I said Some vaccinated individuals do not seroconvert and are effectively unvaccinated, so the unvaccinated could really help their chances by getting vaccinated. The unvaccinated who would seroconvert but won't get vaccinated are killing vaccinated people who don't seroconvert. It should be a crime.

Ding ding! One of my friends currently has covid and is hospitalized despite mostly isolating even after she got vaccinated. She was the only living relative to help take care of a relative who passed's final preparations and she suspects that's how she got sick. Last month, before she got sick, her transplant team found that she had no immunity despite vaccination. That's not super common, but more common with elderly folks or people who are on certain immune-suppressing drugs, like those with organ transplants (as was true in her case).

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

I see what he is saying no it's not going over my head I went up to calculus math. I suspect there are a lot more cases of people getting infected that are vaccinated and are dying.

Of course. He "suspects". 'Nuff said.

[msRB311]

So why are we not having shut downs if this is such an issue ? Nothing is changing.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by msRB311

So why are we not having shut downs if this is such an issue ? Nothing is changing.

Because the Israeli data shows that vaccinated people who get infected don’t land in the hospital very often and pretty much never die. The United States has similar data. Why pull the plug on the economy because a bunch of morons are sucked into the whole anti-vaccine thing? Think of it as evolution in action. Personally, I don’t care if some ED and ICU in a Missouri or Florida hospital gets overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases. That’s not going to happen in New England beyond a few pockets in failed cities. I imagine St Luke’s in New Bedford is not happy looking at the data on Delta. Or Bay State and Mercy in Springfield. You’re not going to pull the plug on the Boston economy over that.