Coronavirus in Massachusetts (car insurance, asbestos, car)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

I think your wording was confusing, but you are correct, I didn't fully comprehend what you were saying the first time. Now I think I get it, though I had to read your post a few more times to make sure. I asked whether a 99.9999% survival rate would be high enough for you to support removal of all restrictions, and you responded with a made-up scenario where the virus were 99.9999% survivable but somehow also caused long-term damage in 30-50% of people infected with it, and you said you would want to keep restrictions in place.

I'm not a logician, but this seems to be a form of begging the question. If you imagine a virus that somehow causes long-term damage to that high a percentage of people even though it kills virtually no one, then sure, it becomes a lot easier to rationalize a bunch of restrictions. If your implication is that Sars-Cov-2 is that virus, I think the evidence for that is very weak. Some of the more recent posts in this thread allude to this; I think quite a few of us are probably operating under the assumption that you're only really likely to have long-term effects from Sars-Cov-2 if you get really, really sick from it -- kind of like every other virus, if you think about it.

Sorry, I meant to reply sooner but been busy with stuff...


As this source poster redplum cited tells us, long haul symptoms are more likely in severe cases, but not as much as one might think. They have also been far less discriminatory to those with high risk factors, than short term fatalities (think healthy athletic people in their 20s).

Originally Posted by redplum33

Studies have shown that people who had mild infections or even no symptoms at all with the original SARS-CoV-2 strain can still have significant long COVID health problems. The danger from Delta is likely to be the same and it would be risky to assume otherwise."

As you can see 27.4 percent of those who were symptomatic but not hospitalized, had post-Covid conditions. Slightly less (but still very significant), 19 percent of ASYMPTOMATIC patients had post-Covid conditions.



"Post-COVID conditions were found to a greater extentin patients who had more severe cases of
COVID-19, but also in a substantial share of patients whose cases lacked symptoms. Of patients
who were hospitalized with COVID-19, the percentage that had a post-COVID condition was 50
percent; of patients who were symptomatic but not hospitalized, 27.5 percent; and of patients who
were asymptomatic, 19 percent."


This knowledge would cause any rational person to place a higher risk value to this illness, than if you had a <1% chance of dying and guaranteed full recovery with no long term effects.


So as one who acknowledges that this is a new illness where we still have a lot to learn about its risk, effective management and prevention; I'm trying to understand where you are coming from. It seems as though you are leaving no leeway for adjusting/improving the response as we acquire more knowledge. Would that be correct?

[BostonMike7]

So in other words, even with an asymptomatic case, you have a 1 out of 5 chance of having a long-haul covid symptom. Those odds go up with severity.


My MIL has long-covid. It's not fun. The "just-a-cold" folks can stick to your 99.99% survivability number while I'll focus on not getting it at all so i don't roll the dice on having to spend the rest of my life getting winded while having a conversation or getting constant brain fog.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

So in other words, even with an asymptomatic case, you have a 1 out of 5 chance of having a long-haul covid symptom. Those odds go up with severity.


My MIL has long-covid. It's not fun. The "just-a-cold" folks can stick to your 99.99% survivability number while I'll focus on not getting it at all so i don't roll the dice on having to spend the rest of my life getting winded while having a conversation or getting constant brain fog.

The risk of vaccinated patients getting long haul Covid is “very very small”

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-very-n1273970

And symptoms for others appear to subside in some cases after vaccination:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...38e_story.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coron...7bi-story.html

[rach5]

Now a paper on possible effect of covid on IQ. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/e...324-2/fulltext
Considering that we also have the info from brain scans, it really looks like covid is not ... good for the brain.

[mdovell]

I watched a video of a video about the 1918 pandemic and one thing that came up a number of times is survival does not mean the same

[porterhouse]

Originally Posted by rach5

it really looks like covid is not ... good for the brain.

We know that lockdowns and hysteria are even more damaging.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

All the research suggests that the Pfizer vaccine is still about 90% effective against the delta variant

No, not all of the research. Recent Israeli studies are about 40%.

"A full course of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was just 39% effective at preventing infections and 41% effective at preventing symptomatic infections caused by the Delta Covid-19 variant, according to Israel’s health ministry, down from early estimates of 64% two weeks ago.

The figures, based on data from an unspecified number of people between June 20 and July 17, are significantly lower than previous estimates of the vaccine’s efficacy against other variants, which initial clinical trials found to be 95%."


Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberth...h=98ea5f3584f1

[msRB311]

Hearing some of these supposed long term effects of covid aren't particularly helpful. Ok so covid isn't good for the brain...I guess anyone who has had it is screwed then? Alcohol and drugs aren't good for the brain either and plenty of people do those on a daily basis. There's many things that aren't good for the brain...here's one more.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Hearing some of these supposed long term effects of covid aren't particularly helpful. Ok so covid isn't good for the brain...I guess anyone who has had it is screwed then? Alcohol and drugs aren't good for the brain either and plenty of people do those on a daily basis. There's many things that aren't good for the brain...here's one more.

Let's all take MDMA so that we embrace the terminality of existence with empathy and enthusiasm.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Hearing some of these supposed long term effects of covid aren't particularly helpful. Ok so covid isn't good for the brain...I guess anyone who has had it is screwed then? Alcohol and drugs aren't good for the brain either and plenty of people do those on a daily basis. There's many things that aren't good for the brain...here's one more.

^ Apples and oranges.