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As the demand for ventilators becomes overwhelming, the age of the patient will be at the top of the flow chart criteria. Deciding who gets a ventilator will be done quickly as time will be critical. I’m sad it’s come to this, but I’m focusing on those things in my control today, rather than stressing over any hypothetical injustice done to me in the future.
And I think that is absurd for older age to be the first/primary criteria, all other things being equal.
Age is just a number, one piece of the puzzle. It is too arbitrary.
Some of the top contributors to our society are people over the age of 60, including many of our top health care worker and leaders. Six of our Supreme Court justices are 65+. All remaining candidates for President are over 70 years old.
I would not choose to save a thoughtless young Spring Breaker who flouted the rules and put everyone else at risk.
Would you?
If a violent prisoner contracts the virus, yet is younger, would you save them over people who have never been in prison but are older?
How about taxpayer status? Those who pay their taxes year over year contribute more to the economy than those who are a drain on the economy. Shouldn't tax PAYERS be rewarded for contributing positively to the economy and the society?
There may be very hard choices to make going forward, but an arbitrary cut-off only by age, especially in the light of other criteria that could also be used, does not make sense to me.
And the treatment is the same for the corona virus and influenza and parainfluenza and adenovirus and RSV and viral pneumonia.
Those are all Upper Respiratory Infections (URIs) and there is no cure and no vaccine.All you can do is give the patient drugs to alleviate symptoms and help them breathe, and use medical devices to help the breathe.
The rest is up to the patient. Either their immune system will win the battle or it won't. Only uneducated uninformed people think there will be a vaccine.
You still don't have vaccines for any of the corona virus mutations in the last 20 years, or in the 35 years prior to year 2000 (corona was discovered in 1965 in the UK) for the same reason you don't have vaccines for influenza and parainfluenza and adenovirus and RSV and viral pneumonia.
In case you were wondering the vaccine for pneumonia does work, but it only protects against the 13 different bacteria that cause bacterial pneumonia and not against the several different virus that can cause pneumonia.
Thank you for this. Although we do have two pneumonia vaccines, PCV13 and PPSV23, so it's more than just the 13 strains of bacterial pneumonia when it comes to protecting the over-50 population.
I do hope that a so-called "universal" (meaning that it will offer at least 75% protection against more than a single strain) flu vaccine will become available within the coming decade, though. Flu-V and M-001 look promising. M-001 is actually in Phase 3 at the moment. But look how long it has taken science to even get to this point with just that one virus.
Ironically, I was planning to get the Shingrix vaccine this summer but don't want to challenge my immune system at a time when this particular virus is circulating so widely. I had 4 weeks of a Mystery Respiratory Virus From Hell, starting the day after Christmas until the last day of January; followed almost immediately by a secondary bacterial infection of the sinuses that lasted several weeks. My immune system needs to rest and recoup for a while, LOL.
And I think that is absurd for older age to be the first/primary criteria, all other things being equal.
Age is just a number, one piece of the puzzle. It is too arbitrary.
Some of the top contributors to our society are people over the age of 60, including many of our top health care worker and leaders. Six of our Supreme Court justices are 65+. All remaining candidates for President are over 70 years old.
It's not about their value as a person but their likelihood to survive.
A lot of good stuff. Lost me on testing is a red herring. The only success stories in this have been - S Korea, Germany, Singapore, may be Taiwan and a few others. One thing they have in common - very heavy testing and focused but very strict restrictions on people with positive. By the way, each of these country have very strict health care systems covering 100% of the population (S. Korea and Singapore - single payer, Germany - very highly regulated public/private system that is universal, i.e. - no one is without coverage). Also, the region most affected in Italy is Lombardy, one of the richest areas in Italy.
Agree with most of the rest, but that's table stakes. At this point, the challenges are (1) to flatten the curve to minimize people that could be saved but are not because of lack of care, and (b) develop treatment options (plasma antibodies, other), releasing restrictions on those who have recovered (again requires testing that you aren't hot about), and use stratification to bring the economy back on line. But - what do I know.
I agree with your "overall good" assessment of Mircea's lengthy and informative post. I also agree with your stand on testing. IMHO, a quick, accurate, and widespread test program (ten million people per week minimum, best would be a finger prick and immediate result similar to testing for blood sugar levels) would save far more lives by identifying and isolating those already infected.
For clarification, if this disease presented symptoms within three hours of infection, the likelihood that the victim would be able to spread it to others would be minimized; think of it as if one of the primary symptoms were to be to turn the infected's hair bright red in a matter of hours of transmission. Subsequently, no one but protected, trained personnel would go near anyone that looks like Prince Harry. I cannot think how such a thing would not eradicate further transmission almost overnight. Everybody without a distinct resemblance to Kathy Griffin or Carrot Top would go back to work, and the economics of this problem would cease to exist.
Or, we could ALL, every single one of us, isolate ourselves completely for a two-week period, and anyone developing symptoms within that time would be medically quarantined in a field hospital (high school gym, etc.) and transferred to hospital as needed. If we would have acted more aggressively in February, March would never have unfolded as it has. And it goes without saying that International Air Travel, especially from China, should have been shut down MUCH earlier than it was. We spent billions (maybe trillions) trying to prevent the loss of millions of dollars. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I can only hope that once the dust settles, there is a non-partisan study done to identify all the mistakes, and successes, of this, on a worldwide basis. That is, unless the Chinese have already destroyed all the evidence.
I had 4 weeks of a Mystery Respiratory Virus From Hell, starting the day after Christmas until the last day of January; followed almost immediately by a secondary bacterial infection of the sinuses that lasted several weeks. My immune system needs to rest and recoup for a while, LOL.
I also had the respiratory virus from hell. It started around Dec 7 and lasted 3 weeks. I had severe lower respiratory inflammation w/horrendous cough, aching legs and hips, mild fever, mild fatigue, deep hoarse voice, but no sinus. The symptoms I had mimicked those of some patients with CV-19. However, I'm thinking it couldn't have been CV-19 since supposedly it wasn't in the US yet. However, I do go to a gym that is full of people that work on the Las Vegas strip around lots of international tourists.
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