Italy no longer intubating those over 60 years old (states, retired, adult)
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Almost 78, have had a lot of experiences in my life, some good, some not so good. If I died tomorrow, the only ones who would notice would be the people I make payments to.
I have two grown, older (both in late 50s) with who I do not have a relationship. My daughter hopes I go before her father. He and I have been divorced for 37 years. She is very close with her father and for reasons I am not sure about she hates me. She never said why.
Son is mostly staying away (he lives in OK), but I only hear via text message with many months (years?) in between. Don't think he hates me. But he has a difficult life to live (prison time among other reasons).
So if I died, it wouldn't really affect anyone.
Reading this makes me sad. Nobody should be mostly alone at 78 years old.
I am 65, in mostly good health. Still active, gym goer, etc. I don't feel there should be a mandatory age to not give someone a ventilator. It should be based on more than just age. Are they relatively healthy? Sixty years old isn't "old" like it was 50 years ago. However, if it came down to me or a 45 year old woman who is otherwise healthy, let her have it. I'm in the latter part of my life. I have no qualms about leaving this earth. Just keep me comfortable while it's happening.
However, if it came down to me or a 45 year old woman who is otherwise healthy, let her have it. I'm in the latter part of my life. I have no qualms about leaving this earth. Just keep me comfortable while it's happening.
Same for me. I don't fear death. I fear panic. Just shoot me up with heavy drugs and let me go, if it comes to that.
Although I have read that despite the fact that people traveled much less 100 years ago during the Spanish flu, infection rates were still really high, although perhaps it took longer to spread.
My Grandfather died during the Spanish Flu Pandemic (Which actually started in the US! What did Spain do to get associated with this?) my mother was only 18 months old at the time. Her father was a travelling salesman for a pharmaceutical/patent medicine company, travelling mostly by horseback or carriage as his postcards to my Grandmother were all from towns within a 60 mile radius of their home.
The family was impoverished. With two young sons and a toddler daughter my GM was forced to take jobs as a maid or cook for wealthy families. Only jobs which included free lodging, usually in an unheated attic.
There is so much misinformation about. There is all kind of bs flying about. So, the first thing is to ask the OP where did he/she got the information. A link to the source would be nice.
I am quite certain that the original premise is false (though triage in an overstressed situation is a definite). Here is the link to a very interesting analysis of 3200 deaths in Italy until March 20th - https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronav..._marzo_eng.pdf
The link is easy to read and has very useful information. The most notable being the link to hypertension and Ace Inhibitors and ARBs that Dr. Fauci hinted in an interview couple of days back. Doesn't look like all 62 years are being left for the crows.
Finally, the persons trying to score cheap points against single payer health care should know that some of the best outcomes are in S. Korea (single payer), Germany (not single payer, but very highly regulated - and a health insurance is a precondition to stay in the country). These countries are also #1 and #2 in the ICU beds per 1000. The US is way down on the list... So much for the most expensive health care system on this earth - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...512_story.html
I find the link to the analysis of the Italian deaths (first link in quoted article) very interesting. It shows that by far and away the majority of deaths are in those with multiple medical conditions, and the leader, by a factor of 2 over the next highest, is high blood pressure. I would have assumed it would be COPD, or other chronic lung condition. While it is a horrible shame for those involved, it does give me a bit of mental peace, as we have none of the conditions listed. Being both over 60, my DH is somewhat immune compromised, but otherwise very healthy, as am I.
This is so wrong and no it is not .
The Netherlands put me back together after the US system was so afraid I wouldn't be ABLE to pay that they just patched me together after my gallbladder burst ( because they were also afraid I could not pay for the surgery , told me I was imagining things and tried to put me on Benzos ) . I arrived in NL in bad shape at the age of 43 . They cared that I had quality of life .
All about the cash here , no one cares .
Everyone is deemed "anxious' or otherwise "insane " and we should all be on pills to stop that .
I am 57.5 but took a BAD hit from the above that I just described so like some others just don't let me suffer and let me go . Ill just go be with my fiance I miss so much anyway so Its ok .
My grief counselors are worried about this but I am ok , as long as I am not feeling anything .
I cannot believe we are having to talk about this .
My Grandfather died during the Spanish Flu Pandemic (Which actually started in the US! What did Spain do to get associated with this?)
Historians say the reason was that Spain was the only country not under wartime censorship, so the news of the epidemic emerged there first. I'm glad they've chosen to quit naming pathogens after the area they (think that they) first emerged.
As the demand for ventilators becomes overwhelming, the age of the patient will be at the top of the flow chart criteria. Deciding who gets a ventilator will be done quickly as time will be critical. I’m sad it’s come to this, but I’m focusing on those things in my control today, rather than stressing over any hypothetical injustice done to me in the future.
I find the link to the analysis of the Italian deaths (first link in quoted article) very interesting. It shows that by far and away the majority of deaths are in those with multiple medical conditions, and the leader, by a factor of 2 over the next highest, is high blood pressure. I would have assumed it would be COPD, or other chronic lung condition. While it is a horrible shame for those involved, it does give me a bit of mental peace, as we have none of the conditions listed. Being both over 60, my DH is somewhat immune compromised, but otherwise very healthy, as am I.
Thank you! I am glad you found it useful. I hope people share and look for information like that in responding to this crisis - rather than respond to the political bs on socialized medicine and so on. More we respond to that, more we lose. We need to focus on the crisis at hand. Doesn't matter what the system - if there is insufficient medical capacity, there will be hard decisions made by whoever is making them.
I did not read that there was a specific age cut-off, just that when there was only one ventilator and 2 patients in need of it the younger patient with a better survival rate would get it. Most people would agree with that except entitled old rich people who think that money=access.
Except that being younger does not automatically mean they have the higher survival rate. If they are asthmatic and immunosuppressed and the 60+ is otherwise healthy with no chronic conditions, THEN what?
What if the younger one was a drug addict, unmarried and no kids versus a 55 year old with young grandkids?
Oh my, that makes it so much tougher and complicated so yeah, let's fall back on age alone.
Except that being younger does not automatically mean they have the higher survival rate. If they are asthmatic and immunosuppressed and the 60+ is otherwise healthy with no chronic conditions, THEN what?
What if the younger one was a drug addict, unmarried and no kids versus a 55 year old with young grandkids?
Oh my, that makes it so much tougher and complicated so yeah, let's fall back on age alone.
Well when you're 55 and have grandkids, unless you are the legal caretakers of those grandkids, they don't need you to survive, they have parents. You've already done your job by reproducing and you have two generations ahead of you. A young person with no kids still has a lifetime ahead of them. Just because you have grandkids doesn't make you more important than a 30 or 40 year old with no kids.
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