Italy no longer intubating those over 60 years old (respect, restaurant, wife)
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I do not believe 90% morbidity on ventilators is even remotely correct. Not able to find the source I saw the numbers in. If you were right - 90% of the serious/critical cases (guessing all on ventilator) in the worldometer site should wind up in the dead column in 4-5 days. That's (thankfully) definitely not happening...
In the meantime, women have much better numbers, so may be they should go to the front of the queue
I'll keep looking, as I know I didn't make the number up (though it may well be incorrect). Also in the meantime...this is the situation I was talking about:
Quote:
Vergano described how difficult it was for the frail and elderly to survive the prolonged intubation required to recover from Covid-19–related pneumonia. As excruciating as it was to admit, about a week into the epidemic’s peak, it became clear that ventilating patients who were extremely unlikely to survive meant denying ventilatory support to many who could.
Patients aren't necessarily dying on ventilators, it is more that doctors don't think a patient is progressing well.
Quote:
You have a certain amount of time to get better. If you don’t, we’ll take you off and give it to someone else.”
“If you take it off someone who is not doing very well,” he added, “the reality is they die.”
If patients need a ventilator for two or three weeks (in many cases, it's for a longer time), rationing is necessary.
Quote:
Newer information from Italy in a March 4 email from University of Milan physicians Maurizio Cecconi, Antonio Pesenti and Giacomo Grasselli to other critical care doctors around the world showed a much higher number — 10 percent requiring mechanical ventilation.
“This happens like a bomb that explodes,” Grasselli said in an interview. “It happens all of a sudden and keeps growing and growing.”
Grasselli said in his region there were just barely enough ventilators and beds to go around but that many patients required 15 days to three weeks of ventilator support. “Clearly when resources are not enough for the number of patients, you have to prioritize patients who have the highest chance of survival,” he said.
The Gov of Texas recently said, on national TV, that seniors should "sacrifice themselves for the economy". Texas just had a 5.0 earthquake. And this was my first good laugh of the day. Having lived in both Southern and Northern CA and having been through some real big earthquakes over 57 years, I know that a 5.0 didn't hurt anyone -- and I wouldn't wish suffering on ANYONE -- I NEVER have. But I can't help but find this a 'tad' humorous. Too bad it wasn't in The Gov's city! Right by his house!
With that said: no one needs an earthquake right now. Things are bad enough.
First of all, anyone saying that seniors be sacrificed for the economy ought to think of his/her own loved ones first and think what they are saying.
Of course, there are some seniors here also making statements full or bravado how they do not mind going. Easy to say on City-Data, but be honest and think. You are gasping for air but are committing to not seek medical attention in the hospital? If you are headed to the hospital, you are consuming the medical capacity in some for already. Yes - when capacity run out and we are on the outside, what will happen will happen. But, I can't think of many (nor am I encouraging) who would not seek medical help if it came to that, regardless of the bravado on the internet forum.
What a sad situation we find ourselves in. Maybe we need to start focusing rationing of ventilators closer to home.
No matter -- WHO in their right mind would say something like that???
Who? Nobody.
And nobody did. You, as well as others, misquoted the Lt. Governor. What he said was a lot of grandparents out there, such as himself, might be willing to take a chance on the virus if it would help save the economy for their grandchildren. The 69 year old Lt. Governor said people in his age group can take care of themselves.
See how much more sensible and not-crazy that sounds?
First of all, anyone saying that seniors be sacrificed for the economy ought to think of his/her own loved ones first and think what they are saying.
Of course, there are some seniors here also making statements full or bravado how they do not mind going. Easy to say on City-Data, but be honest and think. You are gasping for air but are committing to not seek medical attention in the hospital? If you are headed to the hospital, you are consuming the medical capacity in some for already. Yes - when capacity run out and we are on the outside, what will happen will happen. But, I can't think of many (nor am I encouraging) who would not seek medical help if it came to that, regardless of the bravado on the internet forum.
What a sad situation we find ourselves in. Maybe we need to start focusing rationing of ventilators closer to home.
I've been saying for a long time that we should not watch or listen to the news very much. CNN, for example, has become more entertainment than anything else. Since it's 24/7 it is very much invested in getting us to watch 24/7. And I think (just my opinion, I know) that its fueling the fear and anxiety -- and hysteria. (And I tend to like CNN -- but less and less over the past 3.5 years. I think it's trying too hard to shape American politics, when all it should be doing is reporting the news.)
I am NOT saying that the virus isn't serious. It is. And if we get sick, it could very well be the lack of proper medical care that kills us and not the virus itself. But, for right now, I think I'm pretty correct when I say that all of us here on the Retirement forum -- well, those of us who are fully retired -- are safe at home, are warm, have enough food, have enough money to pay for extras like a computer and Internet, and are generally doing fine. Right now -- and, as far as we know right now, into the future. Speculating on what will happen to us in the future IF we get the virus is useless. When I find myself doing that, I pick up a good book or watch something funny on Amazon Prime/Hulu or do housework (I love to do housework! LOL). I did have a long-time friend who was a daily phone buddy but he has become so anxious, I can't talk to him anymore -- he gets me SO nervous with all his "what ifs".
Most of us here have encountered death in some way -- either we've either almost died (from an illness or injury/accident) or we've lost more than one loved one to death. So I don't think it's 'bravado' when we say that we're not afraid. (I'd like to make the great distinction that dying can be very unnecessarily painful in The US, but death itself is no big deal.)
And just for the record, 15 months ago, I was sent home from The ER when I had pneumonia and bronchitis (never before knew that we can get both at the same time). For days, I laid in bed, trying to breathe and listening to something very much akin to a death rattle. It was painful and uncomfortable, and I was just grateful that I had "all my affairs in order" -- altho' I did wish I had had a few more affairs (bad joke). So I think some of us -- even most of us -- who say we are not afraid are being truthful.
We ARE very fortunate. And I wish you well. I hope you have people around you who love you and who you can talk with and have a better perspective on this really sad situation.
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