Italy no longer intubating those over 60 years old (divorced, relative, married)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yeah man, 60 year old, left to die. That's awesome healthcare. Where do I sign up?
Socialized medicine is notorious for this exact thing. Hilarious.
You shouldn't assume similar things can't/won't happen in the U.S.
As I said, for the record, I'm no fan of socialized medicine, either. Nor am I a fan of the health care morass we have, but all of that is a whole other kettle of fish.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 03-23-2020 at 09:31 PM..
What are your true thoughts on this? I am a 68 year old senior in fairly good health, I personally feel I have a lot of life left in me. I was sad and hurt to read this, but I guess hard decisions have to be made at some point. I wonder if it will come to this in the US?
Our "First World-ness, with so much flying around within and outside of countries, might well be a major reason for the incredibly fast spread.
Good point.
Although I have read that despite the fact that people traveled much less 100 years ago during the Spanish flu, infection rates were still really high, although perhaps it took longer to spread.
Although I have read that despite the fact that people traveled much less 100 years ago during the Spanish flu, infection rates were still really high, although perhaps it took longer to spread.
I gather during that epidemic, it was the movement of so many soldiers to and from Europe for World War 1. Unusual amount of movement for the times and no airplanes, but millions of people on the move.
Hopefully we won’t get there but if we get to the point where there aren’t enough ventilators they will have to make a choice similar to Italy and Spain.
I disagree that a decision should be based simply or primarily on age, though.
The first people who should be refused a hospital bed, let alone a ventilator, are those young Spring Breakers who will cause a rise in infections.
Of course people who die from the virus are dying on vents. A vent is a mechanical device that can get O2 in lungs and CO2 out, but it cannot make the destroyed cells in lungs exchange O2 and CO2 - you need a lung tissue for that.
Btw, an intubated person does not need a ventilator. Not so long ago, in some third world countries, there would be entire families around an intubated family member, taking their turn squeezing a bag to get O2 into the patient. A colleague who worked in medical missions told me he saw families in Nepal taking an intubated patient, the bag-ventilation tubing, and tanks of O2 HOME! It still does not help if lungs are destroyed, and morphine also does not re-grow damaged lungs (it is used in people with pulmonary edema due to heart failure, but that is a totally different kind of respiratory distress where lungs are not damaged, just collect fluid because the heart cannot pump well. Morphine affects favorably the capacity of circulation and blood pressure (ie, resistance against which a weak heart has to pump) in that situation, with the added benefit of sedation. But again, that is a totally different situation from the primary destruction of lungs).
You can survive with destroyed lungs only with extra-corporeal circulation or lung transplant, neither of which is remotely possible on a mass scale of this epidemic.
I am 60, healthy (so far :-), am a medical professional, and carry a laminated signed "do not resuscitate/do not intubate" card anyway, regardless of any particular virus... which tells you what my (VERY informed :-) opinion is of heroic medical measures :-).
^^ Yesterday, one of the news stories about the crisis in Italy showed a patient who was weakly squeezing his own plastic bottle, weakly, trying to get more air to the mask on his face. It was a sad and depressing thing to watch.
This isn't so much about the virus, and the deaths it causes as it is about a total lack of supplies to fight an epidemic or a world wide pandemic.
My state, NY State has literally half the cases in the country, and is now considered the "epicenter" of the pandemic, as NY State has 6% of the ENTIRE globe's, world's cases, Though Italy has been hit hard. Like Italy, NY, particularly the city, will be totally OUT of supplies ( like today or tomorrow), and the first responders, the doctors, the nurses on the front lines, will not only have to make hard choices about care, but face succumbing to the virus as well.
Many doctors and nurses themselves are 60+.
We in NY state need about 30k ventilator s, and they just aren't available.
Louisiana does have the fastest growing number of cases, but TOTAL cases in LA are still thousands and thousands well below NY s cases
This week it WILL GET WORSE.
Trump (and Even gov. Cuomo) DO want to get the economy rolling again. But the big question is how? When? Do you let a young person who has survived go out to work? And be a carrier? Able to infect others? Does risk still exist to respread the virus?
Those are just as tough questions as " do I save this 80yro, or do I save the 40yo?
Bill Gates one of the richest men in the world, Said a long time ago, and has a YouTube video about how he WAS MOST CONCERNED about a tiny microbe bringing down the human race, not AI, not computers, not nuclear war. ( You can search for it).
We will see what happens next.
And Wednesday I have to go to the bank and pharmacy, if Walmart or Aldi's ( on the way) are open, I can get some milk, new fresh produce etc. Not a necessity, but while I'm out and exposed anyway.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
