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Easy, I can have faith in Jesus/God (in that they exist) and not follow his commandments / instructions.
That is only part of it. You must do a step of things. Which I outlined already.
Yes, becoming born again is certainly different than simply repenting of your sins and resolving to do better. Becoming born again is turning from your sinful lifestyle. One that willingly dilleberatly keeps sinning and simply asking for repentance every day/week is not born again. He is still living a sinful lifestyle.
Is faith in the existence of Jesus and/or God necessary? What about someone who never heard of Jesus and was raised in a totally secular society but does the things Jesus said to do concerning morality and charity? They are after all pretty obvious things and as Paul puts it 'written in their hearts'.
Asking for forgiveness without genuine repentance and a real intent to change one's life is obviously not for real. But really intending and trying to do better and failing, even repeatedly, is simply human nature and does not preclude being forgiven again. Presumably God knows which is which. Bit if never sinning again is the result of being born again, I have never met anyone going to the kingdom of God.
Is faith in the existence of Jesus and/or God necessary? What about someone who never heard of Jesus and was raised in a totally secular society but does the things Jesus said to do concerning morality and charity? They are after all pretty obvious things and as Paul puts it 'written in their hearts'.
If you have heard about God/Jesus then yes faith in the existence of Jesus/God is necessary.
If someone has never heard about God/Jesus then they will be judged on did they acknowledge God / Some higher deity through nature how they lived their life. They are / will not judged by the same standard we are.
Quote:
Asking for forgiveness without genuine repentance and a real intent to change one's life is obviously not for real. But really intending and trying to do better and failing, even repeatedly, is simply human nature and does not preclude being forgiven again. Presumably God knows which is which. Bit if never sinning again is the result of being born again, I have never met anyone going to the kingdom of God.
Sorry buddy it doesnt work like that. God is very clear about people that live a sinful lifestyle.
Ofcourse, we can not stop sinning completely. But we can certainly abstain from living a sinful lifestyle. You do know the difference between a simple sin and a sinful lifestyle do you?
I can choose whether or not I want to go get drunk every weekend. I can choose whether or not I want to be in an adulterous relationship, i can choose whether or not to watch porn everyday etc etc.
God is clear on this
Quote:
Hebrews 10:26
"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"
Throughout history of mankind, more people have been killed in 'God's name' than likely any other reason. Largely due to difference in beliefs, etc. You would think that God could pretty easily clear all of that up with a single visit. Or instead of supposedly just making himself known to us at death, why not do so at (prior to) birth? That way, he could tell me exactly what he would like from me in life. Don't leave me guessing by having to get my life's guidance from a man-made book, that was frankly written when people were pretty insane and uneducated.
Look at some of these nutjobs in the middle east now, especially when they go on about being messengers of God. They are absolutely insane. But we should just believe guys who supposedly said that thousands of years ago?
Throughout history of mankind, more people have been killed in 'God's name' than likely any other reason. Largely due to difference in beliefs, etc. You would think that God could pretty easily clear all of that up with a single visit. Or instead of supposedly just making himself known to us at death, why not do so at (prior to) birth? That way, he could tell me exactly what he would like from me in life. Don't leave me guessing by having to get my life's guidance from a man-made book, that was frankly written when people were pretty insane and uneducated.
Look at some of these nutjobs in the middle east now, especially when they go on about being messengers of God. They are absolutely insane. But we should just believe guys who supposedly said that thousands of years ago?
If he showed himself everyone would believe. Christianity is about faith.
If you have heard about God/Jesus then yes faith in the existence of Jesus/God is necessary.
If someone has never heard about God/Jesus then they will be judged on did they acknowledge God / Some higher deity through nature how they lived their life. They are / will not judged by the same standard we are.
How much is 'hearing about' God/Jesus? Hearing the name? Seeing a nativity creche? Being told Jesus was a preacher who lived a long time ago? Where is the dividing line that requires belief? And if not hearing about Jesus makes it easier to get to heaven, aren't missionaries doing a disservice? What is the conversion rate per thousand people preached to? And why convert anybody? What advantage is there versus the risk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by medellinheel
Sorry buddy it doesnt work like that. God is very clear about people that live a sinful lifestyle.
Ofcourse, we can not stop sinning completely. But we can certainly abstain from living a sinful lifestyle. You do know the difference between a simple sin and a sinful lifestyle do you?
I can choose whether or not I want to go get drunk every weekend. I can choose whether or not I want to be in an adulterous relationship, i can choose whether or not to watch porn everyday etc etc.
God is clear on this
Choosing to sin is obviously not being sincere about repentance. Falling into temptation is another matter. If on sincerely repents and sincerely tries to reform but fails from time to time, forgiveness should be available.
Matthew 18
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
How much is 'hearing about' God/Jesus? Hearing the name? Seeing a nativity creche? Being told Jesus was a preacher who lived a long time ago? Where is the dividing line that requires belief? And if not hearing about Jesus makes it easier to get to heaven, aren't missionaries doing a disservice? What is the conversion rate per thousand people preached to? And why convert anybody? What advantage is there versus the risk?
Hearing about him is simply hearing about him and understanding who he is and his message.
Conversion rate is small regardless of anything. For God said the road is narrow and only a few will make it.
Quote:
Choosing to sin is obviously not being sincere about repentance. Falling into temptation is another matter. If on sincerely repents and sincerely tries to reform but fails from time to time, forgiveness should be available.
Matthew 18
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
How does one live a sinful lifestyle without choosing it? We do have free will right?
If I get drunk every weekend or am in an adulterous relationship I am willingly deliberately choosing to sin.
As I told you, you need to understand the difference between a simple random sin "from time to time" and living a sinful lifestyle. Two very different things.
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