Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This insidious teaching of eternal conscious torment - souls being tortured forever, endless billions of years, no closer to any relief - it is truly a horrible thing. And this goes on while Christ's followers are at peace in "heaven"... how can anyone be at peace knowing this?
It is a very interesting but sad phenomena, that those who believe in this evil doctrine, defend it as if their own soul depended on it. So they are blinded to see anything but the reign of eternal torment, because without it, they feel they are risking their worldview and their very soul. It is the power of FEAR.
We can be at peace knowing this because we will accept that it is the righteous and just judgment of our Maker,
That those who reject being born again, because their sin nature will never be dealt with, will also sin throughout eternity and therefore it is justice that they be punished throughout eternity.
God takes pleasure in judgment and so will His saints when all is said and done and it is shown clearly to all how just the judgment of the Lord really is in all that He will do.
This insidious teaching of eternal conscious torment - souls being tortured forever, endless billions of years, no closer to any relief - it is truly a horrible thing. And this goes on while Christ's followers are at peace in "heaven"... how can anyone be at peace knowing this?
It is a very interesting but sad phenomena, that those who believe in this evil doctrine, defend it as if their own soul depended on it. So they are blinded to see anything but the reign of eternal torment, because without it, they feel they are risking their worldview and their very soul. It is the power of FEAR.
Considering that it is everlasting destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9),
as defined by the equation y = 1 / x;
Where x is the time allotted and y is the wholeness of the individual;
On the graph the decrease in wholeness steadily decreases as the wholeness decreases.
So, as time passes, there is less suffering that takes place with each new interval of time as the wholeness will decrease steadily but so will the decrease in wholeness.
At interval 4, the wholeness = 1/4 of the whole.
At interval 5, it is 1/5 of the whole.
At interval 6, it is 1/6 of the whole.
If you can see these on a pie chart, you will see that what is taken away each time is a little less each time.
By the time you get to interval 1,000,000, at the next interval the wholeness = 1 / 1,000,001. The decrease in wholeness is less than 1 / 1,000,000 for one interval.
And thus, even in the lake of fire, there is ever-increasing mercy for those who are being punished.
Yes it does need to, especially when you keep telling us everything is plain speech.
THEREFORE as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
What Adam DID came to ALL men EVEN SO, what Christ DID came to All men. This verse is clearly saying this, and you can't see the plain speech that you boast the Holy "Guest" presents to you.
There's no if's, but's and however's in this verse.
ABBA's Perfect Satisfaction =
"All the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe, people and things, animals and atoms get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies all because of His death." ~MSG
I have no recollection of whether I had any kind of life before I was born; or whether I chose to be in Adam.
As in Adam ALL die, EVEN SO in Christ All shall be made alive.
THEREFORE as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Notice it does not say the free gift was offered, it came upon all men. Faith in the accomplished fact will change your life
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Did you choose to be in Adam?
How could you possibly decide to be born naturally?
As in Adam ALL die, EVEN SO in Christ All shall be made alive.
THEREFORE as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Notice it does not say the free gift was offered, it came upon all men. Faith in the accomplished fact will change your life
As IN ADAM all die, so IN CHRIST shall all be made alive.
Those who are in Adam are not in Christ; surely you can deduct that from the verse logically and with common sense!
And 1 Corinthians 15:22 does not have as the very next verse, with a THEREFORE, Romans 5:18.
Last edited by justbyfaith; 05-20-2022 at 05:57 AM..
You ditched Your King James for the NIV because it didn't say what you wanted it to. So much for the reliability of It
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
As IN ADAM all die, "SO" IN CHRIST shall all be made alive.1 Corinthians 15:22.New International Version
Those who are in Adam are not in Christ; surely you can deduct that from the verse logically and with common sense!
And 1 Corinthians 15:22 does not have as the very next verse, with a THEREFORE, Romans 5:18.
For as in Adam all die, EVEN SO in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22. King James Version
You ditched your beloved kjv(the kjv you keep telling us is the most accurate translation) in favor of the NIV because it does not say EVEN SO like the kjv does. Why have you done that? It just goes to show you know the difference between "even so" and "so". thinking dropping the word EVEN would make it mean what you believe, it doesn't.
It does not say that. It is clearly saying what happened in Adam for All also happened in Christ for All. You do not want to see it, because your belief system comes down like a house of cards. Therefore and Even so are in those scriptures for a reason, why you are ignoring too.
We can be at peace knowing this because we will accept that it is the righteous and just judgment of our Maker,
That those who reject being born again, because their sin nature will never be dealt with, will also sin throughout eternity and therefore it is justice that they be punished throughout eternity.
What you have said here is completely unscriptural. The wages of sin is death, and death is destroyed. Death has no victory. Sin does not carry on throughout eternity. Jesus takes away the sin of the world - you teach the opposite.
Romans 8
18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
Quote:
God takes pleasure in judgment and so will His saints when all is said and done and it is shown clearly to all how just the judgment of the Lord really is in all that He will do.
Yes it will be amazing when we see how just the judgment of the Lord really is. And all those who finally realize eternal torment was a terrible lie will feel great shame.
The creation has been subjected to futility, and not by its own choice. Yet the creation will be liberated from this bondage to decay.
Considering that it is everlasting destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9),
as defined by the equation y = 1 / x;
Where x is the time allotted and y is the wholeness of the individual;
On the graph the decrease in wholeness steadily decreases as the wholeness decreases.
So, as time passes, there is less suffering that takes place with each new interval of time as the wholeness will decrease steadily but so will the decrease in wholeness.
At interval 4, the wholeness = 1/4 of the whole.
At interval 5, it is 1/5 of the whole.
At interval 6, it is 1/6 of the whole.
If you can see these on a pie chart, you will see that what is taken away each time is a little less each time.
By the time you get to interval 1,000,000, at the next interval the wholeness = 1 / 1,000,001. The decrease in wholeness is less than 1 / 1,000,000 for one interval.
And thus, even in the lake of fire, there is ever-increasing mercy for those who are being punished.
Now you are just making up stuff to make yourself feel better about your belief of people being tortured in a lake of fire for all eternity. Sounds like itching ears...
Now let me answer your question.
They will not get in. They are shut out from the Kingdom of God - they are shut out from reigning with Christ. Does that mean they are not saved? NO.
Do you know what the Kingdom of God is? It's not "heaven" as is popularly taught. It is more properly called 'the reign of God'. Yet even that reign will end when all are finally subjected to God. Christ must reign until all enemies are put under his foot, and then the last enemy (death) is defeated.
It is this reign where the firstfruits of Christ's harvest will come to reign with Him. This is a period of time where the elect, the few chosen will work through Christ to bring in the rest of the harvest. They rule with an iron rod in order to break the vessels, just as Christ received from His Father. Is God's full harvest going to yield 99% crop failure? Or will it be 100% susccessfull?
It is at this later time that all will eventually be humbled and saved. So then eventually all will be subjected to Christ, and then God will be all in all.
Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God
1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Revelation 2:26-27
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the Sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Romans 8:18-24
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Don't you realize that we will judge angels?
Isaiah 26:9
When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Then comes the end, when (Jesus) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For "He has put all things under His feet."But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him (The Father) is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to (Jesus), then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
And so the last will be first and the first will be last, just as Jesus said in Luke 13.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You ditched Your King James for the NIV because it didn't say what you wanted it to. So much for the reliability of It
