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What you are unable to see in your indoctrinated blindness to The True Nature of God revealed by Jesus on the Cross is that a God of agape love and forgiveness would NEVER allow a place of eternal torment to exist!!! You are blind to the ultimate contradictions in your beliefs about God. You cannot terrify someone to love you and God knows that!!. The stupid Godfather threat of Hell is primitive ignorance writ large and you have bought it hook line and sinker in your irrational fear of God.
Fear of God was used ONLY as the beginning of wisdom as the schoolmaster to tame our savage and brutal nature so we could learn to love God. Your preaching does NOT and can NOT promote the love of God which makes it a false Gospel from the one Jesus preached and unambiguously (and Divinely) demonstrated. The fate of the one preaching the false Gospel is not a pleasant one. You are in so much spiritual confusion and trouble, brother, but I cannot seem to find a way to help you to see it.
The fear of the LORD is not only the beginning of wisdom...
It is wisdom (Job 28:28).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellsmaine
JBF latest tirade is classic "she doth protest too much" Oh, and as for so-called "loopholes", how did they get there if it's all cut and dry?
The loopholes don't hold any water if you combine the scriptures that speak on eternal torment instead of isolating them from each other and dealing with them one by one.
J. Preston Eby was another writer who I read early on which helped me on my journey.
To think I lived over half my life believing in eternal torments. But when my children were born I was led on a grander path to discover what is really going on.
Lego my friend, our Father ABBA has, and always will be, grander as He brings each of us in His good timing to where He dwells!
The ghastly concept of unending torment by our ABBA simply is NOT Scripture ! ! !
Search = "eternal torment" =
Occurs 0 (ZERO) times in 0 (ZERO) verses in the KJV.
There are no concordance results for "eternal torment" in the KJV.
JBF latest tirade is classic "she doth protest too much" Oh, and as for so-called "loopholes", how did they get there if it's all cut and dry?
Go to the NDE thread right here in the Christian forum and read jbf's NDE post. This explains a lot to me. After I read it, we are wasting our time with him. I honestly believe only a MD or a miracle (but even then..) can fix this. A heart made of granite and mind so closed even God cannot get through.
Go to the NDE thread right here in the Christian forum and read jbf's NDE post. This explains a lot to me. After I read it, we are wasting our time with him. I honestly believe only a MD or a miracle (but even then..) can fix this. A heart made of granite and mind so closed even God cannot get through.
A heart that is hardened by God means one cannot get through unless God opens their eyes. So I'm not worried
A heart that is hardened by God means one cannot get through unless God opens their eyes. So I'm not worried
Saul/Paul.
Actually, your right. Looking at it from a worldly perspective. I think of a beatitude for jbf...Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Cannot deny he seeks righteousness. Just a bit misguided.
The loopholes don't hold any water if you combine the scriptures that speak on eternal torment instead of isolating them from each other and dealing with them one by one.
Its ironic - you have that completely backwards. The scriptures that speak on so-called eternal torment don't hold any water once you understand:
1. the rest of the bible is speaking on God's plan to reconcile all things back to Himself
2. the so-called 'eternal torment' scriptures can be shown to be misunderstood, misinterpreted or mistranslated
3. and these same 'eternal torment' scriptures are at complete odds with the character of God
You will be held accountable for preaching a false gospel in that you remove the fires of hell as a deterrent against committing certain sins and because of this, certain people may never repent of their sins and as the result they will be cast into everlasting fire.
This religion of UR has done its work in order to seek and try and find loopholes in the scriptures that preach the eternal flames of hell for those who do not avail themselves of Christ's sacrifice as a remedy for sin in order to bring forgiveness and sanctification.
I will say that it can even make a good case for its doctrines by separating the verses that speak of everlasting fire and isolating them from one another.
However, when we combine every verse that speaks on the subject, it becomes clear that people suffering eternally in flames is the reality of what holy scripture teaches.
The scriptures clearly lay out the doctrine in plain terms; and apart from this teaching of the UR, one gets the message and will be more likely to heed its warning and repent of the sins that might put you into the lake of fire for all of eternity.
I will say that the following scripture comes to mind when I am confronted with the doctrines of the UR.
Eze 13:22, Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Eze 13:23, Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
You strengthen the hands of the wicked by promising him that there is no eternal judgment; while eternal judgment is a basic doctrine of holy scripture (Hebrews 6:1-3).
You will be held accountable.
Those who trust in your doctrines and do not repent as the result will surely be cast into everlasting fire; and their souls will cry out for the blood of those who deceived them.
For if they had been told the truth, they would have never trusted in a lie; and they would have repented of their sins; because they would have never been given the false hope that is offered by the UR.
God is ultimately good and does not leave Himself without a voice.
Wherever the doctrines of the UR are preached, you can be sure to find people who are contending for the truth.
And because the truth is being preached alongside of the lie, those who believe the lie will still be able to be perfectly held accountable for knowing the truth. They will not be able to say that they were unaware of the doctrine of eternal torment and that they were never warned about what they will face as the result of God's certain judgment against their sins when they stand before Christ on the day of judgment.
Hmm. You realize we will ALL be held accountable? And one day you will be held accountable for your despicable belief that maligns and misrepresents the character of God. Eternal torture is an abominable belief. No one with such a belief will be entering the reign of God. But you will still be saved, so as by fire.
Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
How are you so sure you are going to avoid this fate? You think your name is in the book of life? Have you already overcome this world? (Rev 2:11, Rev 3:5) Have you run the race and already finished so you have received the prize? How is it you think you are one of the 'few' chosen out of the 'many' called? Because you yourself made a choice? You think you believe, but really you believe that God is going to eternally torture anyone who doesn't believe like you do? Who are you to judge anyone, when you think God is going to eternally torment his enemies, yet Jesus tells us to love our enemies? Do you think God is two-faced or of two minds?
There are a few things to address here. First of all you don't understand the power of God if you think that one person is somehow going to affect another person's eternal destiny. Get this idea out of your head. It is not you who can save anyone, it is GOD who saves. Likewise any that are lead astray, GOD can save them according to his own timetable. Just like SAUL. You really think Saul was 'free' to reject God? Once He saw the light, there was no going back.
Second its laughable if you say I'm ignoring the doctrine of 'eternal judgment'. Did you even read my post? JUDGEMENT is paramount! It is represented by FIRE and is literally what makes us RIGHTEOUS and ultimately SAVES US! Go back and try to understand.
Third, your doctrine of fear has you imprisoned in your own belief. It is exactly like MysticPhd said. You cannot terrify someone into love. Try to understand the true nature of God. God is LOVE.
Fourth - its not a "religion of UR" - it is the scripture! Go back and address any of the verses I posted about judgment, fire, overcoming, Christ's reign, etc. Please study and don't rely on your manmade fear doctrines of eternal torture.
The character of God is incompatible with eternal torment.
Let us call it what it is, any form of 'eternal torment' is literally eternal torture. Fit for some demon-spawn devil to ensnare souls with. This is the stuff that myths and horror movies are made of. To ascribe this to God - well its just beyond understanding. Yet many people believe this so easily because they don't know the character of God.
God is LOVE.
1 Corinthians 13
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Now let us consider this with the fallacy of eternal torment, and you will easily see how it is false.
Love is patient & kind - but ONLY UNTIL YOU ARE THROWN INTO ETERNAL TORMENT... It is not self-seeking - except to show how terrible your sin is FOREVER... It does not delight in evil and rejoices in the truth - except EVIL WILL LIVE ON FOREVER IN ETERNAL TORMENT..
It ALWAYS protects - except those in eternal torment...
Love never fails - except it fails to save 99% of mankind...
Really?
It is amazing that this is even an argument.
But get ready for the replies from detractors...
- God is LOVE, but God is also HATE!
- God is LOVE, but God is also WRATH!
- God is LOVE, but God is also HOLY!
- God must display all his attributes for eternity by purposing eternal suffering!
- and the Calvinists will say OF COURSE God HATES!
As if God is two-faced...
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Oh, and as for so-called "loopholes", how did they get there if it's all cut and dry?
The ghastly concept of unending torment by our ABBA simply is NOT Scripture ! ! !
I think of a beatitude for jbf...Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Cannot deny he seeks righteousness. Just a bit misguided.
