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The fence issue is interesting -- because to me it sounds to utterly strange, and I feel very, very sympathetic to Sparksals -- but for what it's worth, I don't think that's a "Minnesota" issue. We currently do have kids cutting across our front yard (NOT back yard; not sure if the fence issue here refers to front, back, or both), but they're also all very polite, nice kids. Putting up a fence for privacy -- or because you like the looks of it, or have a dog, or just want to support the local fence industry, or any other reason -- is perfectly reasonable. I guess I also don't see fences as a bad thing in any way, and don't think they distract from being a "neighborhood." There's a lot of other forms of public space, including sidewalks, so there's no need to make someone's yard a cut-through. Just out of pure curiosity: where are all these people going? Are your blocks very long? And why do the kids need a "safe haven?" Although even if they are very long and there's no convenient way to get from one block to another it's still obviously not your responsibility to take on the role of public way-fare! In any case, I'm sorry that your experience in the Twin Cities has has not been very positive.
I think you should tell snoopy neighbors that you put up the fence because you wanted a little privacy for nude sunbathing.
The fence was to completely enclose the yard at the back. We border on 6 houses. Two on the side are fully fenced, one behind us and the house on the other side. There are two houses behind us, with one house being the majority and about 10 feet of property on the 2nd back house. We also fenced the two front sides with gates. In Rosemount, you must put your fence inside your property line, so we had to butt up to the other two fences with a picket attached to the end post.
We live on a cul de sac of sorts. Our yard was a short-cut for kids and people from blocks behind us, going to visit friends, I imagine. We would be in the garage and people we have never seen before would be walking up and down our driveway to and from the backyard. Complete strangers. In the summer, it was incessant. Of course it is going to become bothersome when you start to feel your property is being hijacked with absolutely no consideration for the owners.
The safe haven comment was from the one neighbour (whose yard is fenced). Her kids and the kids behind were going back and forth between houses. Cutting through prevented them from going up the sidewalk and turning the corner to the next block. It was definitely sarcastic and intended to let us know in no uncertain terms how dare we build a fence! Had they made any effort to get to know us, invite us for a beer, or something, it would have been very different. There was absolutely no attempt while taking it upon themselves to be entitled to our yard.
But if it was just them, it wouldn't be a big bother. It was the myriad of kids we didn't know, parents, teenagers. It also presented a security problem because there was some vandalism on our street and they entered and escaped by our open back yard per a neighbour's CCTV.
Besides - had we not fenced the yard, we were concerned about adverse possession ... when property has been used for a long period of time, it can be converted to that. Since it was a public thoroughfare for so long, we felt we had to take the necessary steps to protect our entitlement to our property and to protect us from any type of liability. What if a kid was running across our driveway as we pulled out of the garage... kind of thing.
If the former residents of your house had no issues with them acting that way, perhaps they were simply used to being able to cut across?
Possibly in some cases. The neighbours in question. Absolutely not. Many of the teenagers and kids riding their bikes on the lawn knew their friends who previously lived here moved away. I'm sure many of the adults also knew.
We did tell people we didn't know to stop when we noticed how invasive it was becoming around the end of our first summer since we didn't get the fence up that year.
You are right, I'm sure there were people who didn't know.
So you would never directly confront the people involved, just go behind their backs - and complain to us about it.
Sounds like a textbook case of Minnesota Nice on your part, no? Stick around, you totally fit into the Minnesota way of social interaction!
Actually, not quite. We thought all along that the fence would go up the first year. When that didn't happen, we started telling the adults and kids we didn't know to stop cutting through.
The neighbours behind and beside continued to cut through and we admittedly did not speak to them for the sake of 'neighbourly relations'. They knew from the beginning the fence would go up. When I first mentioned the fence for the dog, one neighbour said, 'oh, are you putting in an invisible fence?', because all she was thinking about is a real fence taking away her cut through. It wasn't until the holes were dug and posts installed that the outcry and rude behaviour started and the 'safe haven' comment made - like how dare we put a fence up.
It became frustrating when there was still no effort to get to know us, yet constant knocks on our door to buy things from them, donate to fund-raisers etc. There was absolutely no form of reciprocity whatsoever. Our yard was a convenience and I honestly believe they banked on the fact that we were new and didn't want to rock the neighbour boat. Which we didn't. We put up with it because we initially thought the fence would go up that year, but it did go up the following summer, our 2nd here.
OK, you DID tell people to stop cutting across your lawn. That's different - I take it all back.
'Invisible fence', you say? One of the first things we did on our N Mpls property was to put up a 6' wooden security fence all the way around the back yard - to keep my partner's 71 lb guard dog from wandering into the alley and munching on local alley cats & children, and to keep the four pit bulls across the way from beating up our dog. So far, so good...
As for meeting neighbors and making casual friends around us, I must say that our current block has been the most outgoing of any place I've lived in the Twin Cities over the years. They may not be wealthy or well connected, but they are more friendly than most places I've been. Perhaps the pursuit of riches and prestige takes away from our ability to connect to people.
OK, you DID tell people to stop cutting across your lawn. That's different - I take it all back.
'Invisible fence', you say? One of the first things we did on our N Mpls property was to put up a 6' wooden security fence all the way around the back yard - to keep my partner's 71 lb guard dog from wandering into the alley and munching on local alley cats & children, and to keep the four pit bulls across the way from beating up our dog. So far, so good...
As for meeting neighbors and making casual friends around us, I must say that our current block has been the most outgoing of any place I've lived in the Twin Cities over the years. They may not be wealthy or well connected, but they are more friendly than most places I've been. Perhaps the pursuit of riches and prestige takes away from our ability to connect to people.
Yes, we did - at least to the people we didn't know as well as to the people across the street whose dog enjoyed jaunting to our yard, taking a dump and going back home.
I have never honestly heard of such drama over a fence in my entire life. lol It is sad because it was for selfish reasons and it wasn't us being selfish. We just wanted our yard to be our yard, to have privacy and to not worry about liability when it all began for our dog -and then extended to the other reasons.
I wish I could say this neighbourhood is rich and prestigious. lol I think it's pretty middle of the road. If it is rich, I'm not seeing any of the money in our bank account! lol
Quite honestly, your attitude toward your neighbors and the kids cutting through your yard is pretty offsetting. Unless they are ripping up your grass or otherwise causing damage, what was the big deal? Maybe it is a MN thing but kids always have cut through yards, we did when we were growing up, we had other kids cut through our yard-it's a neighborhood. Perhaps that is more the reason you haven't made friends when the first thing you do is throw up a fence and cause an issue over nothing??
I don't think her attitude is "offsetting" at all. I think she's completely in the right. If the neighbors had some informal understanding with the previous occupants that the yard was fair game for shortcut purposes, that's fine. But they ought to have had the common sense and respect to know that when the property changes hands, the rules might change too. They should have asked if it was OK to cut thru. And if they were told "no," then they should have respected that. Finally, if the neighbor doesn't like the fence, that's their problem.
golfgal, you're getting defensive here because someone dared say something about Rosemount -- something that might imply that it isn't the slice of heaven that you've led us all to believe.
I don't think her attitude is "offsetting" at all. I think she's completely in the right. If the neighbors had some informal understanding with the previous occupants that the yard was fair game for shortcut purposes, that's fine. But they ought to have had the common sense and respect to know that when the property changes hands, the rules might change too. They should have asked if it was OK to cut thru. And if they were told "no," then they should have respected that. Finally, if the neighbor doesn't like the fence, that's their problem.
golfgal, you're getting defensive here because someone dared say something about Rosemount -- something that might imply that it isn't the slice of heaven that you've led us all to believe.
Thanks so much, Globe. I'm at quite a loss to understand how my attitude of being nice to neighbours and putting up with their rudeness is off-putting, yet their behaviour isn't considered so.
What's common in so many of these threads about it being hard to meet people in MN is that so many of the posters are living in the suburbs, and often the far out ones. Which is a hard place to meet anyone all across the country by nature of their design and who lives there. It's families. You meet people through school and sports that your kids are involved. You meet the neighbors when your kids and their kids start playing together. Otherwise, just about your only other option is to meet people through church or join a bowling or softball league.
I'm not suggesting that everyone move to the city, but people should be aware of the difficulties of meeting people when moving to a suburb in a city where you don't know a single soul. Suburbs are designed for families. Everyone drives everywhere, drives into their garage and the door shuts behind them and you don't see the person until they leave for work the next morning. In cities, you meet people walking by while you are out doing yard work or just sitting out a nice evening. There are more neighorhood festivals and gatherings. Just more things going on.
What's common in so many of these threads about it being hard to meet people in MN is that so many of the posters are living in the suburbs, and often the far out ones. Which is a hard place to meet anyone all across the country by nature of their design and who lives there. It's families. You meet people through school and sports that your kids are involved. You meet the neighbors when your kids and their kids start playing together. Otherwise, just about your only other option is to meet people through church or join a bowling or softball league.
I'm not suggesting that everyone move to the city, but people should be aware of the difficulties of meeting people when moving to a suburb in a city where you don't know a single soul. Suburbs are designed for families. Everyone drives everywhere, drives into their garage and the door shuts behind them and you don't see the person until they leave for work the next morning. In cities, you meet people walking by while you are out doing yard work or just sitting out a nice evening. There are more neighorhood festivals and gatherings. Just more things going on.
You made a good point about the suburbs. There is a large contingency of "drive to work and drive home" going on. It is car-dominated, which make socializing kind of hard in some ways.
Interestingly, I live in an apartment complex, so I see alot of people gathered out in the evenings.
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Stick around, you totally fit into the Minnesota way of social interaction!
