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I've noticed that a few voices predominate on the MN boards, so that might also skew the debate here. More people might chime in if there wasn't a tendancy to dismiss or even insult other posters' points of view.
I don't expect to be here too much longer, so I'll make do until then with my transplant friends.
Not to mention the assumption that there must just be something deficient in the social skills/personalities of non-natives if they can't make friends here. I have lots of friends, just none of them are from MN.
As someone who is 25, grew up in Grand Rapids, went to college in Minneapolis and now works there, I just did an assessment of my social circle... the only person from Minnesota is my girlfriend (but most of her friends are from MN because she grew up in Minneapolis), with my closest friends being from CT, DC, NYC, WI, FL, AZ, Canada, and Norway.
I'm definitely an anomaly though. I'm a big soccer fan so my interest attract non-Minnesotans more than Minnesotans on average. I know several people with huge social networks where 90% of the people or more are from Minnesota, with most of them who have never left the state other than on vacation.
I dont think the difficulty in making friendships here is a myth. People are definitely closed. However, my true friends are not here and quite frankly will not ever be here (unless I convince some to relocate). But then again - those friendships took a long time to develop. The distinction in my mind is that people here are not truly friendly. They pretend to be. The most I expect here are acquaintances - that way I will not be disappointed. I treasure my friends and just try to get along with everyone else. I think because my expectations are not high - im not really disappointed. A few years in and I will probably feel much differently though.
I dont think the difficulty in making friendships here is a myth. People are definitely closed. However, my true friends are not here and quite frankly will not ever be here (unless I convince some to relocate). But then again - those friendships took a long time to develop. The distinction in my mind is that people here are not truly friendly. They pretend to be. The most I expect here are acquaintances - that way I will not be disappointed. I treasure my friends and just try to get along with everyone else. I think because my expectations are not high - im not really disappointed. A few years in and I will probably feel much differently though.
That has been my line of thinking since I was prepared for the ice before I came here. Now that we've lived here for two years, I'm thinking WTF? It's been two years and I still experience the pretend friendliness from my neighbours and other acquaintances.
That has been my line of thinking since I was prepared for the ice before I came here. Now that we've lived here for two years, I'm thinking WTF? It's been two years and I still experience the pretend friendliness from my neighbours and other acquaintances.
That is exactly what I am afraid of - but have also braced myself for. I try to make myself feel better by knowing that I have friends all over the country, and in fact all over the world that are so very open and accepting. I also take some pathetic comfort in knowing that the people who behave in this closed manner are losing out on having a broader scope of friendships and that if they ever are forced to venture out of their comfort zone - they are in for a rude awakening. And then I call an old friend!
LOL -- I have had the same thoughts! It really is comforting maintaining the attitude that it is their loss, not ours and that what goes around, comes around.
As someone who is 25, grew up in Grand Rapids, went to college in Minneapolis and now works there, I just did an assessment of my social circle... the only person from Minnesota is my girlfriend (but most of her friends are from MN because she grew up in Minneapolis), with my closest friends being from CT, DC, NYC, WI, FL, AZ, Canada, and Norway.
I'm definitely an anomaly though. I'm a big soccer fan so my interest attract non-Minnesotans more than Minnesotans on average. I know several people with huge social networks where 90% of the people or more are from Minnesota, with most of them who have never left the state other than on vacation.
Here's my evolving theory. Many of my friends are from other places, but I also have friends from MN (although most of my close friends from high school left Minneapolis post-high school, but may be moving back at some point.) I don't think that's such an anomoly, though, because my family also have pretty diverse circles of friends (so, too, do my own friends, but I figure that that's sort of skewed). Those people with social networks that are almost entirely made up of native Minnesotans are presumably the people who made most of their friends as a kid, because otherwise the odds would be that they'd make more non-MN friends just because there are a lot of non-MNs floating around in the Twin Cities. It will understandably be hard to break into those groups if you didn't meet those people way back when.
One of my personal and professional interests is history. I've noticed (and this goes for the five states that I've lived in) that local history attracts a mixed bag of people. You might think that it's mostly people who were born and raised in a community, but in general it seems that those attracted to the local history organizations (and other locally-focused organizations in general, not just history-related) are actually from elsewhere. Granted, the volunteer force at these places is usually pretty old (retirees have the time to hang out at museums and archives), but they tend to be a friendly bunch, interested in the local community, but (mostly) not going to talk your ear off about great uncle Howard and how long the family has been in town. I don't know about others, but I find it sort of grounding to know about the history of a community and to place myself in the context of the new generation of residents and a modern contributor to the city or neighborhood's future. The Pew Research study about people who move a lot also showed that those who move are actually more likely to get involved in the community (and this would include these history museums or societies) than are people who have always lived in a place; maybe that means that those of us who do get involved in the community (volunteering, politics, organizing social events, whatever) are therefore just putting ourselves in a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to include more people who are either from elsewhere, have lived elsewhere, or are open to friends from anywhere.
But then again, I know there are people here who have tried volunteering and haven't had great luck using it as a venue for making friends, so maybe that theory doesn't always work. Still, go volunteer at your local historical museum and see who's there or look at the names of the people on the board; odds are they aren't all born in the state. (and there's another good way to potentially meet friends; join a board if you have the time and money to do so.)
And I think I said this on a similar but different thread, but I'm a Minnesotan, and I don't go into meeting people with high expectations. If they turn out to be lifelong friends that's great, but if not, well, at least I have a new acquaintance. If they don't respond to my overtures of friendship (which I admit are less now that my schedule is really weird now that I have a toddler and no babysitter; one day that will change again, though), that's their loss.
As far as pretend friendliness, I think sometimes people read too much into that. Usually it's just politeness. I'm sure the people aren't trying to be mean or rude, they're just trying to be polite. Try not to take it personally, try not to criticize them too much (at least you have polite neighbors! Believe me, I've experienced some very non-nice, Minnesota or otherwise, neighbors, and I'd rather have polite but reserved any day), and move on to the next person.
The Pew Research study about people who move a lot also showed that those who move are actually more likely to get involved in the community (and this would include these history museums or societies) than are people who have always lived in a place; maybe that means that those of us who do get involved in the community (volunteering, politics, organizing social events, whatever) are therefore just putting ourselves in a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to include more people who are either from elsewhere, have lived elsewhere, or are open to friends from anywhere.
There may be some merit to this. I just went to an orientation the other day to volunteer for a pet rescue. There were a couple dozen 'newbies' there and about half were new to the Twin Cities. Some had worked for rescues in other places and it was a natural progression to volunteer once they move to a new place.
I never knew the correlation between community involvement and being new. That's very interesting.
This is an excellent post -- thoughtful and inspiring. Thanks! I will test your theory by volunteering at a museum of some sort in the near future. I will also think about other ways to get involved in the community in future, as I become more acquainted and get a better routine going so that I have more free time.
By the way, I'm definitely planning to check out the history center in St. Paul this weekend. I hope I learn a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
Here's my evolving theory. Many of my friends are from other places, but I also have friends from MN (although most of my close friends from high school left Minneapolis post-high school, but may be moving back at some point.) I don't think that's such an anomoly, though, because my family also have pretty diverse circles of friends (so, too, do my own friends, but I figure that that's sort of skewed). Those people with social networks that are almost entirely made up of native Minnesotans are presumably the people who made most of their friends as a kid, because otherwise the odds would be that they'd make more non-MN friends just because there are a lot of non-MNs floating around in the Twin Cities. It will understandably be hard to break into those groups if you didn't meet those people way back when.
One of my personal and professional interests is history. I've noticed (and this goes for the five states that I've lived in) that local history attracts a mixed bag of people. You might think that it's mostly people who were born and raised in a community, but in general it seems that those attracted to the local history organizations (and other locally-focused organizations in general, not just history-related) are actually from elsewhere. Granted, the volunteer force at these places is usually pretty old (retirees have the time to hang out at museums and archives), but they tend to be a friendly bunch, interested in the local community, but (mostly) not going to talk your ear off about great uncle Howard and how long the family has been in town. I don't know about others, but I find it sort of grounding to know about the history of a community and to place myself in the context of the new generation of residents and a modern contributor to the city or neighborhood's future. The Pew Research study about people who move a lot also showed that those who move are actually more likely to get involved in the community (and this would include these history museums or societies) than are people who have always lived in a place; maybe that means that those of us who do get involved in the community (volunteering, politics, organizing social events, whatever) are therefore just putting ourselves in a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to include more people who are either from elsewhere, have lived elsewhere, or are open to friends from anywhere.
But then again, I know there are people here who have tried volunteering and haven't had great luck using it as a venue for making friends, so maybe that theory doesn't always work. Still, go volunteer at your local historical museum and see who's there or look at the names of the people on the board; odds are they aren't all born in the state. (and there's another good way to potentially meet friends; join a board if you have the time and money to do so.)
And I think I said this on a similar but different thread, but I'm a Minnesotan, and I don't go into meeting people with high expectations. If they turn out to be lifelong friends that's great, but if not, well, at least I have a new acquaintance. If they don't respond to my overtures of friendship (which I admit are less now that my schedule is really weird now that I have a toddler and no babysitter; one day that will change again, though), that's their loss.
As far as pretend friendliness, I think sometimes people read too much into that. Usually it's just politeness. I'm sure the people aren't trying to be mean or rude, they're just trying to be polite. Try not to take it personally, try not to criticize them too much (at least you have polite neighbors! Believe me, I've experienced some very non-nice, Minnesota or otherwise, neighbors, and I'd rather have polite but reserved any day), and move on to the next person.
Community is a big definition. I don't see myself volunteering my time and effort in a community that doesn't necessarily welcome me. I'm not looking for a return as in I don't give to receive, but I want to make sure I volunteer in an org that will at least be friendly enough to make some long standing friendships. I don't see that in my close knit, family oriented suburb. I do see it volunteering at a pet rescue though. The animals certainly appreciate the kindness and friendship.
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exactly!
