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This almost seems like a joke, and would be funny if it weren't true. But I think you are hitting upon something that is specific to condo dwellers. You will have some people who live in condos because it's easy, affordable (relatively), and somewhat hip. Then you have those who are indulging in conspicuous consumption. I'm sure that the value one gets for their money in a condo decreases as the upgrades, # of rooms increases. But perhaps I'm wrong, although I'm speaking as a former condo dweller along the waterfront in Toronto. Think about how much people will pay for a balcony or a high floor. So it's really not surprising that they don't want to associate with the people in the affordable wing, since the whole point to their being there is to distinguish themselves from the crowd (in their own minds)...THAT's what they paid for really.
Sounds similar to a trip to a mall I had. This is just a suburban Atlanta perspective I am using. The mall I am normally at is in the Kennesaw/Marietta area. I went to a mall in Alpharetta, and it is a bit more upscale, more ritzy compared to the one in Marietta. It seemed like alot of the people were snobby and indifferent compared to Marietta.
There is a complacence among Minnesotans that demonstrates itself in a friendly indifference with no desire to extend or increase their social circles. They are polite, will respond if you initiate, but there is a definite lack.... It's much easier to form friendships with non-natives. Generally speaking ,Minnesotans are closed off, lack warmth, and just don't seem to be too interested and lacking a curiosity in other people.
Aylalou, reading what you wrote is like holding a glass of cold water and then splashing it into one's own face... Yes it stings, but there's purity in at least knowing what it is.
What you write about is EXACTLY what my family has experienced. Moving to Minnesota from south of the Mason-Dixon line, I had expected the weather to be the coldest thing. I was wrong.
I've lived in St. Cloud for three years and work at a company that has a highly-educated workforce. Everyone is civil and friendly, except that we don't socialize, we don't eat (lunches or suppers) as a work unit, we don't even have an annual office party. In my field it's pretty common for management teams to go on "retreats" or similar team-building exercises... I brought this up and found not only was there little interest, furthermore it had never been considered.
As a family, we've tried a handful of social organizations and haven't found one that feels right. We tried some open-membership parent clubs, and found they were dominated by political and religious proselytizers. We tried a liberal church, and they were extremely cliquish. Don't know what is the answer.
Our kids are in private schools and we don't know if we're ready to go public. There is SO much bullying that goes on in Minnesota public schools. I've never seen anything like it. There is a real culture of relational aggression and exclusion. It comes from the top. When teachers think a kid doesn't "fit in" to their school, they just send them to an alternative school, or ALC's as they call them here. No effort to build a welcoming environment.
But I think it's just part of a wider cultural problem. People's lives here are full. They don't need change, and they don't need you. They won't invite you to dinner, but they don't mind giving advice and pleasantries, etc. So if you can accept "cold and distant," you get to see their friendly face. That's about the best you can hope for. Confront them, or ask questions, and they'll snarl.
This is a beautiful state, and even the cold weather is simply majestic, IMO. And there are lots of fun cultural things to do in the Cities. But don't move here thinking you're going to meet lots of welcoming, friendly people. There's no one like Garrison Keillor actually walking around. (And yes I have been to the Prairie Home Companion live broadcast.)
I have no idea what it's like to live in St. Cloud; perhaps what you've described is typical. But there is a HUGE difference between St. Cloud and Minneapolis, so for anyone considering a move to Minnesota I wouldn't assume that life in St. Cloud is anything like life in Minneapolis. They're not very far in terms of distance, but I think there is a massive cultural divide between the two. Maybe not as much of a difference between the outskirts of the Twin Cities (as the Twin Cities metro area itself has some deep divisions between core cities/inner suburbs and middle/exurbs), but distinct enough that I wouldn't draw on life in St. Cloud to be representative of life in Minneapolis. I don't know how it compares to the rest of the state.
Aylalou, reading what you wrote is like holding a glass of cold water and then splashing it into one's own face... Yes it stings, but there's purity in at least knowing what it is.
What you write about is EXACTLY what my family has experienced. Moving to Minnesota from south of the Mason-Dixon line, I had expected the weather to be the coldest thing. I was wrong.
I've lived in St. Cloud for three years and work at a company that has a highly-educated workforce. Everyone is civil and friendly, except that we don't socialize, we don't eat (lunches or suppers) as a work unit, we don't even have an annual office party. In my field it's pretty common for management teams to go on "retreats" or similar team-building exercises... I brought this up and found not only was there little interest, furthermore it had never been considered.
As a family, we've tried a handful of social organizations and haven't found one that feels right. We tried some open-membership parent clubs, and found they were dominated by political and religious proselytizers. We tried a liberal church, and they were extremely cliquish. Don't know what is the answer.
Our kids are in private schools and we don't know if we're ready to go public. There is SO much bullying that goes on in Minnesota public schools. I've never seen anything like it. There is a real culture of relational aggression and exclusion. It comes from the top. When teachers think a kid doesn't "fit in" to their school, they just send them to an alternative school, or ALC's as they call them here. No effort to build a welcoming environment.
But I think it's just part of a wider cultural problem. People's lives here are full. They don't need change, and they don't need you. They won't invite you to dinner, but they don't mind giving advice and pleasantries, etc. So if you can accept "cold and distant," you get to see their friendly face. That's about the best you can hope for. Confront them, or ask questions, and they'll snarl.
This is a beautiful state, and even the cold weather is simply majestic, IMO. And there are lots of fun cultural things to do in the Cities. But don't move here thinking you're going to meet lots of welcoming, friendly people. There's no one like Garrison Keillor actually walking around. (And yes I have been to the Prairie Home Companion live broadcast.)
I think most of your post is extremely ignorant, and you should probably take a long look at what you got going on before you start pointing fingers. "Bullying in schools?" it's not the 1940s. Kids don't get "Bullied" If your kid is a dork, he probably gets his balls busted. Just like my grandparents' generation, just like Spicoli would have and just like it happened when I was in HS.
The bolded part is very true. Most Minnesotans have been here for their whole lives. Minnesotans love family time and their family. I don't find it neccessary to "go eat with co-workers".. I'm with you 40 hrs a week, more time than I am with my girlfriend, friends, parents and siblings. At the end of the day, sorry, I don't want to be your friend. I'm your co-worker. I am here 40 hrs a week with you. I'd like to get in some good bonding time with a close friend that i haven't seen in a few weeks before I'd go out with you sorry.
That's our mentality. If you don't like it, then you should have made friends wherever you came from and then never left.
Somebody on this site once said "It's so much easier to make friends in SoCal than MN it's not even funny"///Duh, the majority of people in SoCal aren't from SoCal, they're all in the same boat.
I have no idea what it's like to live in St. Cloud; perhaps what you've described is typical. But there is a HUGE difference between St. Cloud and Minneapolis, so for anyone considering a move to Minnesota I wouldn't assume that life in St. Cloud is anything like life in Minneapolis. They're not very far in terms of distance, but I think there is a massive cultural divide between the two. Maybe not as much of a difference between the outskirts of the Twin Cities (as the Twin Cities metro area itself has some deep divisions between core cities/inner suburbs and middle/exurbs), but distinct enough that I wouldn't draw on life in St. Cloud to be representative of life in Minneapolis. I don't know how it compares to the rest of the state.
Well, I live in Rosemount and spend a great deal of time in both Minneapolis and St. Paul and I think snowgatrz has hit the nail on the head, especially with this:
Quote:
People's lives here are full. They don't need change, and they don't need you. They won't invite you to dinner, but they don't mind giving advice and pleasantries, etc. So if you can accept "cold and distant," you get to see their friendly face. That's about the best you can hope for. Confront them, or ask questions, and they'll snarl.
Anytime this subject comes up, the dukes come out (or as Snowgatrz calls it, snarls). I don't believe it is because he/she lives in St. Cloud. We have experienced the same cliquishness in similar groups mentioned in the post. Although I can't comment on the comments about bullying etc.
I think there are just so many different "Minnesotas" -- St. Cloud is a VERY different place than Minneapolis. To be honest, Rosemount seems pretty different, too. I suppose one could argue what best represents the "real" Minnesota, or at least what represents a "Twin Cities" experience; Rosemount is pretty foreign to my Twin Cities experience.
And yeah, I'll snarl if someone (not Snogatrz; t hat's not what she said) says that there's something inherently mean or terrible about Minnesotans, which has happened on these threads. Minnesotans are people, just like people anywhere else. They're not any nicer or meaner than people in any other city or state.
I don't think bullying is any worse or better than in other states, but that probably depends on school and location more than anything else.
As a native Minnesotan, it stings to hear it, but it is absolutely true. I had a great circle of friends in college, but as we've gotten older and people have gotten married, had kids etc. my social circle is a fraction of what it used to be. We just don't hang out as much anyomore. So for awhile now me and the single friends I still have go out and do stuff and try to meet new people. But it isn't easy. Everyone has their little group that they use as their safety net of sorts. It's very tough to break through these circles.
And it's not like my friends and I are socially awkward or have the plague or something. We are very social-able, friendly and just like to have fun. We have made a few new friends but almost all of them are transplants from other states.
I would hardly put Duluth, Moorhead, Brainerd, Rochester, St. Paul, Minneapolis, Marshall, Worthington, International Falls, Virginia, Blackduck, Roseau and Redwood Falls in the same boat.
As a native Minnesotan, it stings to hear it, but it is absolutely true. I had a great circle of friends in college, but as we've gotten older and people have gotten married, had kids etc. my social circle is a fraction of what it used to be. We just don't hang out as much anyomore. So for awhile now me and the single friends I still have go out and do stuff and try to meet new people. But it isn't easy. Everyone has their little group that they use as their safety net of sorts. It's very tough to break through these circles.
And it's not like my friends and I are socially awkward or have the plague or something. We are very social-able, friendly and just like to have fun. We have made a few new friends but almost all of them are transplants from other states.
I completely agree with most of this, but don't think it's a Minnesota-specific thing; that's life most places. It's easier to meet transplants (at least the ones newer to town) because they don't already have the established local friends. That's the way it's been in every city I've lived in, including Minneapolis. It's tough to find the time to do things when you get older, especially if you have job and family obligations. As you get older more of your peers do have kids (which take up an enormous amount of time) and less flexible schedules. I'd love to go out more and have a busier social life, but at this stage in life that's just not happening. In any case, I agree that it's a tough situation, and that it can be very difficult, but don't think the grass is so much greener in other cities, or at least that has not been the case in our experience. Others feel differently. The only thing that makes Minnesota a bit different from some states is that there are a higher percentage of people from this state who stay in this state, and a lower percentage of people moving in (although almost half of people living in Minneapolis are not from the state, which is not insignificant), so there are more people who have established friends and family already in town and probably realistically DON'T have as much time to do social things with new friends, as it takes enough time as it is to juggle career, family, daily life, and maintaining existing friendships; if you're new to town or don't have kids then you often have a little more flexibility and time since your old friends and family aren't physically living in the area, and are going to be more likely to meet others who also fit that similar profile.
The only thing that makes Minnesota a bit different from some states is that there are a higher percentage of people from this state who stay in this state...
This is it in a nutshell.
It's not that people here are difficult to get to know or to befriend compared with anywhere else. Minnesotans are probably a little colder and more reserved than people in some other parts of the country but that doesn't mean they're impolite or uninterested, it's just a vestige of the Scandinavian Lutheran heritage that so influenced the area.
If you juxtapose Minneapolis against, say, San Diego or Tampa...it isn't difficult to see why outsiders have a hard time meeting people outside of work. Which, incidentally, is where I met my Minnesotan wife. We just don't have the transient population that other similarly sized cities have because people don't really move here and people here don't really move away. When they do move away, they often work through their 20s on the coasts or in Chicago and come back to raise families.
People aren't trying to be insular here by any means, it's just too easy to carry high school friendships into college, and those friendships into adulthood because the same bunch of people are still around and unless you've become dramatically different from each other over the years, you probably still live within a mile or two of most of your friends when you're 35 with kids. It's part of what makes this a great place to live, but it's also a huge factor in the difficulty people face in assimilating here. I do strongly agree that while it takes time and you might have to put yourself out there more here than in some places, you're definitely going to make friends just as you would anywhere else. People are people, and you're going to hit it off with somebody. Might just take a tad longer. Thankfully this is also a pretty active city so it isn't difficult to get involved with group activities that give you the opportunity to meet people here.
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