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My idea of all-loving is to play the role that a good father plays.
The problem with your analogy is that our Father is in Heaven and we are not yet with Him. We are in a spiritual "womb." Do you remember how much interaction you had as a Father with your children while they were in their mother's womb?
The problem with your analogy is that our Father is in Heaven and we are not yet with Him. We are in a spiritual "womb." Do you remember how much interaction you had as a Father with your children while they were in their mother's womb?
Why don't you make some more stuff up? It's quite entertaining. But okay, Christians...drop the Lord's Prayer!
Sorry sweetie, but you're a GROWN UP now. I had nuns who terrified me, too. I lived with a grandparent who used to use the same tactics of, "That's a SIN!" on me.
Of course, it had nothing to do with her LYING to a taxi driver, telling the driver that she was a "partial invalid" who couldn't walk that well (she could) And this was from a "Christian/Catholic" woman who prayed her Rosary every day.
I mean seriously thrill, did you ever think that your "training" was wrong?
Took me years, but I DID come to understand that.
To me, tossing out the whole idea of Christianity is like tossing the Infant Jesus out with the baptisimal bathwater....
You simply don't understand psychology, Mink. People spend decades recovering from the abuse they suffered from nuns and priests--Christianity as a whole for that matter. Some never recover from the terrors of hell and the fear of going there when they die. After a lifetime of being ignored by God I can finally just shrug it all off as fairytales. But it took a long time to get there.
"Anyone who attended Catholic school during the 1950’s, ‘60s, and ’70s will attest to the fact that no one does better punishment, seclusion, restraint, and isolation techniques better than the Catholic orders of nuns who taught in the catholic school systems across the United States and Canada. The nuns imposed corporal punishment for inattention, failure to do homework, and any misbehavior in their classroom was met with a brutality unknown to most of the outside world. Each nun had her own mysterious criteria for punishment depending on her mood, degree of unhappiness with herself or her class, and the amount of rage built up within her during the school day. The fury was always disproportionate to the crime, resulting in an unstable adult thrusting an unequal power differential upon a young student."
You simply don't understand psychology, Mink. People spend decades recovering from the abuse they suffered from nuns and priests--Christianity as a whole for that matter. Some never recover from the terrors of hell and the fear of going there when they die. After a lifetime of being ignored by God I can finally just shrug it all off as fairytales. But it took a long time to get there.
"Anyone who attended Catholic school during the 1950’s, ‘60s, and ’70s will attest to the fact that no one does better punishment, seclusion, restraint, and isolation techniques better than the Catholic orders of nuns who taught in the catholic school systems across the United States and Canada. The nuns imposed corporal punishment for inattention, failure to do homework, and any misbehavior in their classroom was met with a brutality unknown to most of the outside world. Each nun had her own mysterious criteria for punishment depending on her mood, degree of unhappiness with herself or her class, and the amount of rage built up within her during the school day. The fury was always disproportionate to the crime, resulting in an unstable adult thrusting an unequal power differential upon a young student."
Our nuns would slap some of us so hard our head nearly spun around like Regan in The Exorcist.
Didn’t know your original Catholic background, always thought you were a fallen Born Again Christian.
But talking about nuns in the old school days, is no different to Evangelicals talking about the child sex abuse scandal , and then pointing the finger at all Catholics.
"Anyone who attended Catholic school during the 1950’s, ‘60s, and ’70s will attest to the fact that no one does better punishment, seclusion, restraint, and isolation techniques better than the Catholic orders of nuns who taught in the catholic school systems across the United States and Canada. The nuns imposed corporal punishment for inattention, failure to do homework, and any misbehavior in their classroom was met with a brutality unknown to most of the outside world. Each nun had her own mysterious criteria for punishment depending on her mood, degree of unhappiness with herself or her class, and the amount of rage built up within her during the school day. The fury was always disproportionate to the crime, resulting in an unstable adult thrusting an unequal power differential upon a young student."
Our nuns would slap some of us so hard our head nearly spun around like Regan in The Exorcist.
Oh, I attended Catholic school in the early 1960's and I nor my classmates were ever hit.
But, corporal punishment is not banned in every US state for public schools.
Quote:
The Ingraham v. Wright ruling firmly pushed the decision of whether or not to outlaw corporal punishment in public schools squarely onto state legislators. A majority of state bans on corporal punishment have occurred in the intervening years since 1977.
The Wikipedia page is hair-raising. I had no idea of how bad corporal punishments in public school was. Where are those kids parents? Not doing their job of protecting their kiddos.
Yes...because he's supposed to be all-powerful and all-loving.
Gee...he's all-powerful. So how about he just appears up in the sky for EVERYONE on earth to see and hear. Or isn't he all powerful?
^^^This is a good post! In many cases, Phetarol's posts are logical. He deserves an answer to this post.
To the best of my abilities:
He is all-powerful and all-loving, but people are separate beings with free will.
He's gave Adam and Eve directions and the free will to decide to choose to follow his directions.
Same for us. We have the "Word of God" - which I agree has been translated and revised over history.
It is the overall theology and substance and not the single word translation which is important. It like seeing the forest (meaning), rather than focusing on a single tree (a word's translation).
We choose whether or not to follow his directions/theology. We choose by the words we used and our actions. As we use many words and have many actions in a day, some days are better than others. .
Because we have free will, God appearing up in the sky for EVERYONE on earth to see and hear, reduces our ability to grow our faith. God isn't a dictator, earth is not military, one-party dictatorship or absolute monarchy. Belief is a choice.
The word "Father" is a tricky word to describe God. The reason is that parenting has changed since time. In the past, a father loved his children without hovering like helicopter parent. A toddler learned how to walk on his own which meant falling a lot without no baby walkers. Failing and falling was far more normal because back before medicine, technology, etc, learning had bigger life or death consequences. As a results our meaning of father has changed.
I would also add that if everyone has free will, then people have the free will to harm others. It's not that God wants people to be harmed, but he gave us a gift of free will and we have failed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The problem with your analogy is that our Father is in Heaven and we are not yet with Him. We are in a spiritual "womb." Do you remember how much interaction you had as a Father with your children while they were in their mother's womb?
I sort of get what you mean - it's more like we are in separate planes of existence. The womb is kind of like a separate plane and I guess you mean in death we are born?
^^^This is a good post! In many cases, Phetarol's posts are logical. He deserves an answer to this post.
To the best of my abilities:
He is all-powerful and all-loving, but people are separate beings with free will.
He's gave Adam and Eve directions and the free will to decide to choose to follow his directions.
Same for us. We have the "Word of God" - which I agree has been translated and revised over history.
It is the overall theology and substance and not the single word translation which is important. It like seeing the forest (meaning), rather than focusing on a single tree (a word's translation).
We choose whether or not to follow his directions/theology. We choose by the words we used and our actions. As we use many words and have many actions in a day, some days are better than others. .
Because we have free will, God appearing up in the sky for EVERYONE on earth to see and hear, reduces our ability to grow our faith. God isn't a dictator, earth is not military, one-party dictatorship or absolute monarchy. Belief is a choice.
The word "Father" is a tricky word to describe God. The reason is that parenting has changed since time. In the past, a father loved his children without hovering like helicopter parent. A toddler learned how to walk on his own which meant falling a lot without no baby walkers. Failing and falling was far more normal because back before medicine, technology, etc, learning had bigger life or death consequences. As a results our meaning of father has changed.
I would also add that if everyone has free will, then people have the free will to harm others. It's not that God wants people to be harmed, but he gave us a gift of free will and we have failed.
I sort of get what you mean - it's more like we are in separate planes of existence. The womb is kind of like a separate plane and I guess you mean in death we are born?
Thank you for your courtesy and answer.
Where I differ is that I don't see how free will would affect god making everyone see and here him (at least on rare occasions). The free will part would come after that...when individuals decide for themselves to do or not do what god communicates.
Didn’t know your original Catholic background, always thought you were a fallen Born Again Christian.
But talking about nuns in the old school days, is no different to Evangelicals talking about the child sex abuse scandal , and then pointing the finger at all Catholics.
Yep. In Christian schools from 1 to 8. Finally got into a normal city school system 9-12 where there were some girls around. Not the monastery style boys clubs the Catholic sexually hung-up system ran in the 60's. Best four years of my life.
The priests sexually abused the kids and the nuns physically abused the kids. Worst time of my life school-wise. Totally bananas environment.
The problem with your analogy is that our Father is in Heaven and we are not yet with Him. We are in a spiritual "womb." Do you remember how much interaction you had as a Father with your children while they were in their mother's womb?
No, the problem with the religious analogy is that 1) we have evidence for actual fathers, and 2) compared to actual fathers, the god of the Bible and all the invented theology about it is not a good father.
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And this was from a "Christian/Catholic" woman who prayed her Rosary every day. 
Where are those kids parents? Not doing their job of protecting their kiddos.
. 
Not the monastery style boys clubs the Catholic sexually hung-up system ran in the 60's. Best four years of my life. 
