Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No, because I see them through the "mind of Christ." They were very necessary primary instructions for our very savage and undisciplined ancestors and they were phrased to be understood by ignorant spiritually immature savages. That is the problem with reading such early recordings as if they were intended for a civilized and spiritually mature modern mind.
The scriptures were phrased to be ":audience-specific," much as our instructions to our children were geared to their level of understanding and immaturity. A failure to consider this aspect of our species' spiritual childhood has been a major failing of religious leadership, IMO.
You know, I get really, truly sick and tired of you referring, particularly to the early Jews to whom the Ten Commandments were given, as "ignorant spiritually immature savages". It is insulting, demeaning, and degrading of our beliefs. It also insults "your" Christ, who was one of those Jews and followed the same laws of the Torah as authored by G-d. I'd ask you to cease doing this in a "nice" way, but I've seen over and over just how much you like to advertise your own beliefs and "experience". So just quit it already!
You know, I get really, truly sick and tired of you referring, particularly to the early Jews to whom the Ten Commandments were given, as "ignorant spiritually immature savages". It is insulting, demeaning, and degrading of our beliefs. It also insults "your" Christ, who was one of those Jews and followed the same laws of the Torah as authored by G-d. I'd ask you to cease doing this in a "nice" way, but I've seen over and over just how much you like to advertise your own beliefs and "experience". So just quit it already!
You have no place to take offense on behalf of OUR primitive ancestors. You can ignore the truth about them if it suits you, but that does not make it untrue or insulting. Jesus was NOT ignorant and spiritually immature that is why He was sent to them!!! They rejected Him and He announced the reason as He died, "They know not what they do!"
You have no place to take offense on behalf of OUR primitive ancestors. You can ignore the truth about them if it suits you, but that does not make it untrue or insulting. Jesus was NOT ignorant and spiritually immature that is why He was sent to them!!! They rejected Him and He announced the reason as He died, "They know not what they do!"
If they all rejected him you wouldn't have Christianity today.
You would have never even heard or read about him.
"These ignorant spiritually immature savages".
175:1.12 (1907.4) “Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You would shut the doors of the kingdom of heaven against sincere men because they happen to be unlearned in the ways of your teaching. You refuse to enter the kingdom and at the same time do everything within your power to prevent all others from entering. You stand with your backs to the doors of salvation and fight with all who would enter therein.
175:1.13 (1907.5) “Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! for you do indeed encompass land and sea to make one proselyte, and when you have succeeded, you are not content until you have made him twofold worse than he was as a child of the heathen.
175:1.14 (1907.6) “Woe upon you, chief priests and rulers who lay hold of the property of the poor and demand heavy dues of those who would serve God as they think Moses ordained! You who refuse to show mercy, can you hope for mercy in the worlds to come?
175:1.15 (1907.7) “Woe upon you, false teachers, blind guides! What can be expected of a nation when the blind lead the blind? They both shall stumble into the pit of destruction.
175:1.19 (1908.3) “Woe upon all of you who reject truth and spurn mercy!
175:1.21 (1908.5) “Woe upon you, children of evil! John did truly call you the offspring of vipers, and I ask how can you escape the judgment that John pronounced upon you?
You know, I get really, truly sick and tired of you referring, particularly to the early Jews to whom the Ten Commandments were given, as "ignorant spiritually immature savages". It is insulting, demeaning, and degrading of our beliefs. It also insults "your" Christ, who was one of those Jews and followed the same laws of the Torah as authored by G-d. I'd ask you to cease doing this in a "nice" way, but I've seen over and over just how much you like to advertise your own beliefs and "experience". So just quit it already!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You have no place to take offense on behalf of OUR primitive ancestors. You can ignore the truth about them if it suits you, but that does not make it untrue or insulting. Jesus was NOT ignorant and spiritually immature that is why He was sent to them!!! They rejected Him and He announced the reason as He died, "They know not what they do!"
To quote the not necessarily great, but no doubt brilliant, Judah P. Benjamin:
Quote:
It is true that I am a Jew, and when my ancestors were receiving their Ten Commandments from the immediate Deity, amidst the thundering and lightnings of Mt. Sinai, the ancestors of my opponent were herding swine in the forests of Great Britain.
That’s not to say that I grant credence to the notion of the Tanakh as divine truth, but there is no shortage of evidence that save for the Greeks and Romans, the pre-common era Jews had a far more advanced civilization than any other peoples inhabiting Europe.
In defense of Mystic, as nonsensical as his canned claims and conclusory assertions of “ignorant, spiritually immature savagery” may be, I take his proclamations to be levied against all pre-Christian peoples and not Jews in particular. I don’t take him to be an anti-Semite, if nothing else.
To quote the not necessarily great, but no doubt brilliant, Judah P. Benjamin:
That’s not to say that I grant credence to the notion of the Tanakh as divine truth, but there is no shortage of evidence that save for the Greeks and Romans, the pre-common era Jews had a far more advanced civilization than any other peoples inhabiting Europe.
In defense of Mystic, as nonsensical as his canned claims and conclusory assertions of “ignorant, spiritually immature savagery” may be, I take his proclamations to be levied against all pre-Christian peoples and not Jews in particular. I don’t take him to be an anti-Semite, if nothing else.
I apologize to anyone who takes offense at my understanding of our primitive past. I do agree about the pre-CE Jews having a "more advanced civilization" for that era. But I take it as a FACT that the ancient peoples in those primitive eras (regardless of ethnicity or any other factor) were "ignorant, spiritually immature, and savage" by any standard today! I also take it as FACT that the ancient Israelites (descendants of Abraham) were the chosen gene pool to receive the Torah precisely because of their more advanced civilization (such as it was). I am also convinced they were chosen to eventually produce the very incarnation of God's Holy Spirit (Jesus) within humanity. The latter is because the descriptions of Jesus match the God I encountered. I am not anti-ANYBODY and do not believe facts should be taken as insults especially when none is intended.
I apologize to anyone who takes offense at my understanding of our primitive past. I do agree about the pre-CE Jews having a "more advanced civilization" for that era. But I take it as a FACT that the ancient peoples in those primitive eras (regardless of ethnicity or any other factor) were "ignorant, spiritually immature, and savage" by any standard today! I also take it as FACT that the ancient Israelites (descendants of Abraham) were the chosen gene pool to receive the Torah precisely because of their more advanced civilization (such as it was). I am also convinced they were chosen to eventually produce the very incarnation of God's Holy Spirit (Jesus) within humanity. The latter is because the descriptions of Jesus match the God I encountered. I am not anti-ANYBODY and do not believe facts should be taken as insults especially when none is intended.
but you are not stating facts.
you are stating your views, your opinions, your beliefs, and your interpretations.
If they all rejected him you wouldn't have Christianity today.
You would have never even heard or read about him.
I don't know if you're being serious, but this is not true. I can think of a number of people who were not taken seriously throughout their life but whose writings are being re-examined now that there appears to be a lack of knowledge in certain circles. It takes brave people to stand with someone seen as controversial or outcasted. I watch in wonder how some of these people's writings are taken more seriously and I have to work really hard not to be fooled by this renewed interest because I remember some of them saying out their own mouths how they were shunned. It's quite fascinating to watch and shows how a living person can be deified/mythologized after they are no longer around to clear things up. I also see in real time how some people's bio gets altered WHILE THEY ARE STILL LIVING. Subtle changed here and there so by the time they're gone, things are murky...which leads some to believe they weren't who they said they were. This is all done to mislead and pervert their teachings. But it happens so often I suppose that's the way it's supposed to be. *shrug*
but you are not stating facts.
you are stating your views, your opinions, your beliefs, and your interpretations.
Yes, Tzaph, that is true about everyone expressing their opinions, beliefs, and "facts" here. The point is that we DO distinguish among those categories in our own minds. It matters whether or not one truly believes something to be "fact" and expresses it or just believes it, or just has an opinion about it. Taking insults from what someone sincerely believes to be "fact" makes no sense whatsoever!!!
If you have any credible evidence or source that our generic primitive ancestors were not spiritually primitive and as described despite practices of throwing babies into fire or stoning people to death to please God please enlighten me!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's quite fascinating to watch and shows how a living person can be deified/mythologized after they are no longer around to clear things up. I also see in real time how some people's bio gets altered WHILE THEY ARE STILL LIVING. Subtle changed here and there so by the time they're gone, things are murky...which leads some to believe they weren't who they said they were. This is all done to mislead and pervert their teachings. But it happens so often I suppose that's the way it's supposed to be. *shrug*
