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I rarely agree with Outlaw, but in this case she is right. It will take more than the police to get the violence under control. It starts in the family and ends in the street.
Glad Council had sense to unanimously pass an amendment making this crap illegal. This mess irritates me so much, and I can't stand the woke perspective of justifying it... Clearly these people are not riding for fun, they are out to cause noise and trouble, especially at 1:30am.
I am curious to see how enforcement will work... I support strict enforcement: Road spikes, arrest, confiscate / destroy the bikes.
Glad Council had sense to unanimously pass an amendment making this crap illegal. This mess irritates me so much, and I can't stand the woke perspective of justifying it... Clearly these people are not riding for fun, they are out to cause noise and trouble, especially at 1:30am.
I am curious to see how enforcement will work... I support strict enforcement: Road spikes, arrest, confiscate / destroy the bikes.
Eh... I think arrest is a little extreme to be honest and too far to the right to solve the problem...
I think gun violence is the biggest concern for the city, not the ATV and Dirt Bike issue... and most of the gun violence is related to drugs at the moment.
In the whole bucket of Philadelphia problems... having dirt bikes going down Broad St is pretty low. IMO. Sure its annoying... but it is by far not the biggest problem in the city. I am 100% against the problem... but I do not think it is a top priority. It's more of a noise complaint than anything. It is not really violence inducing.
Also road spikes are a little extreme, and you cannot confiscate and destroy personal property of a vehicle if someone is in violation for a ticket violation on the street.
That is against the law. Just like if someone got a DUI... the city cannot confiscate and destroy the vehicle.
In most states, dirt bikes are actually street legal, as long as they have fenders, lights and are registered....
With that, I think starting to fine dirt bike/atv violators $1,500 with perhaps a 60 to 90 day license suspension would be the way to go. Arrest is way overboard. IMO. And a waste of taxpayer dollars.
I think forming a coalition with a few other major cities to tackle the issue would be smart... the whole ATV/Dirt Bike in the street problem has been a phenomena in almost every major city in the USA and is not a Philadelphia specific nuisance....
Arrest though is way too extreme.
If we really want to start to solve Philadelphia's problems... make Philadelphia Community College completely free to city residents... and invest in City Libraries as community centers and skill building resource networks to invest in communities, build skills and income and job opportunities for residents.
I rather spend $5 million towards that initiative... than arresting someone who drove a dirt bike down Broad St... which to me is a waste of money and way too strict of a violation.
Last edited by rowhomecity; 06-13-2021 at 06:10 AM..
In the whole bucket of Philadelphia problems... having dirt bikes going down Broad St is pretty low. IMO. Sure its annoying... but it is by far not the biggest problem in the city. I am 100% against the problem... but I do not think it is a top priority. It's more of a noise complaint than anything. It is not really violence inducing.
Also road spikes are a little extreme, and you cannot confiscate and destroy personal property of a vehicle if someone is in violation for a ticket violation on the street.
That is against the law. Just like if someone got a DUI... the city cannot confiscate and destroy the vehicle.
In most states, dirt bikes are actually street legal, as long as they have fenders, lights and are registered....
With that, I think starting to fine dirt bike/atv violators $1,500 with perhaps a 60 to 90 day license suspension would be the way to go. Arrest is way overboard. IMO. And a waste of taxpayer dollars.
I think forming a coalition with a few other major cities to tackle the issue would be smart... the whole ATV/Dirt Bike in the street problem has been a phenomena in almost every major city in the USA and is not a Philadelphia specific nuisance....
Arrest though is way too extreme.
If we really want to start to solve Philadelphia's problems... make Philadelphia Community College completely free to city residents... and invest in City Libraries as community centers and skill building resource networks to invest in communities, build skills and income and job opportunities for residents.
I rather spend $5 million towards that initiative... than arresting someone who drove a dirt bike down Broad St... which to me is a waste of money and way too strict of a violation.
Thank you for a sane response to this.
The dirt bike riders and the graffiti writers both do what they do for one main reason: to call attention to themselves. It's a form of advertisement in a society where most of us are encouraged to "advertise" ourselves in some form or another (including wearing someone else's name on our chest; the status of the person whose name we're wearing presumably rubs off on us), and usually, the people who engage in these activities don't get to enjoy the more socially acceptable forms of ego-boosting.
Both are annoying — and both are okay, in the proper context or where permitted (someone commissioning a grafftit artist to paint a mural, for instance, or riding the dirt bikes on bike trails). Outside those contexts, however, they're nuisances but not dangers to the body politic or social.
And we shouldn't treat nuisances like they're dangers to the body politic or social.
Edited to add: Going after the nuisances as "broken window theory" would have one do, however, is okay, and stiff fines for violating noise ordinances might just do the trick here.
The dirt bike riders and the graffiti writers both do what they do for one main reason: to call attention to themselves. It's a form of advertisement in a society where most of us are encouraged to "advertise" ourselves in some form or another (including wearing someone else's name on our chest; the status of the person whose name we're wearing presumably rubs off on us), and usually, the people who engage in these activities don't get to enjoy the more socially acceptable forms of ego-boosting.
Both are annoying — and both are okay, in the proper context or where permitted (someone commissioning a grafftit artist to paint a mural, for instance, or riding the dirt bikes on bike trails). Outside those contexts, however, they're nuisances but not dangers to the body politic or social.
And we shouldn't treat nuisances like they're dangers to the body politic or social.
Edited to add: Going after the nuisances as "broken window theory" would have one do, however, is okay, and stiff fines for violating noise ordinances might just do the trick here.
What about the girl who got run down by one two weeks ago?
How about people driving cars and trucks, etc? Why even bother making people get a license, insurance and registration?
Views like yours are why your community is the way it is. I have no sympathy for your ilk.
What about the girl who got run down by one two weeks ago?
How about people driving cars and trucks, etc? Why even bother making people get a license, insurance and registration?
Views like yours are why your community is the way it is. I have no sympathy for your ilk.
Always more then one side and one side of the cultural spectrum this loud engines and speed seeking thrill ridding is not adherent to being Black or White. It is in both cultures.
In fact .... it it probably higher in the good ole boy culture of more rural America. As some know from my comments. I do live in that labeled huge area of PA some label Pennsyltucky. So.... I see in my small city core these ride though speed, thrill and noise luvers riding their jacked up trucks, cars with back-firing shifting gears. Just revving up engines to accelerations yes though town. Is it this generation anything new? No never It was in all I lived though in my hometown and young people then thru today. Worse then.
Of course a Big city is different. A lot is what they can get away with acting badly with a bad-boy lets act badly and get away with it mentality. Even the city I live by cracked down from its cruising days though town of endless drivers and noisy spewing muscle cars once and the motorcycle heydays. Nothing new here in being young and trill seeking on wheels. In Big Bad Philly.... there is not mountains and rural areas to take it outside the city too.
4-wheeling paths have a area though the mountains by me and city a couple years now.... allow on limited main corridors them to drive in the city. You see some parked by restaurants and bars especially on weekends. Yes they can come from the big bad city and lots of NJ and NY plates .... not on 3-wheelers. These 4-wheelers are not the noise makers though. It is the local souped up vehicles spewing and revvving.
Clearly, once it becomes a major issue, results in crimes, destruction of property and quality of life for residents a major complaint and crime elements .... clearly it needs a crackdown. Still this is not Racial as one culture it is most prevalent. The stereotype is really the rural/mountain good ole boy folk that are known for this no?
My comment is not to say it is no problem in Philadelphia. Just not seen as a criminal element by me in small city America to that degree. Still the noise factor, acting badly for thrill, cyles to 4-wheelers to vehicles like pick-ups and muscled-up cars is not a city vs rural thing. It is about kids and young adults mainly. Acting badly in a bad-boy way especially.... is not one race has such trill seeking.
If it becomes a gang with criminal intent or disturbances... of course it needs to be addressed as such or just the noise factor quenched. As a nuisance factor.... fines and rules... of course. Enforcement takes patrols ready to act also. As a gang of them coming down a street it is different also and if criminal intent is in riders minds even over joy rides.
Just the label of only hood rats on wheels mentality in culture .... is not exactly the case elsewhere. Young and wasting time, out for thrill seeking is not a hood thing alone. Crimes committed can then be and add to the problem then a must be addressing issue up to cities and communities to deal with how..... small to large.
What about the girl who got run down by one two weeks ago?
How about people driving cars and trucks, etc? Why even bother making people get a license, insurance and registration?
Views like yours are why your community is the way it is. I have no sympathy for your ilk.
Doing those things should be required of every motorist. I was voicing no objection to those. Yes, I know that these vehicles are not street legal in this state, so whatever the law provides for regarding operating illegal vehicles in the street should be applied to them.
And if someone is injured or killed by one, then the same punishments would and should apply as would apply if the person had been driving a licensed car when that occurred, on top of whatever penalties apply for operating an unregistered motor vehicle.
But road spikes? Vehicle confiscation? That sounds like overreacting to a new nuisance. (Do we confiscate the vehicles of people who kill someone when driving under the influence? AFAIK, the only time we do this is in a civil-asset-forfeiture situation, where the vehicle belongs to someone who was engaged in drug trafficking or suchlike.) And acting like this is a threat to the social order (as opposed to the social peace) is overreacting.
Did you read what I said at the end about "broken window theory"? Or, for that matter, violating noise ordinances? Just because I can understand the motivation for something, or even that I can approve of it in certain contexts and situations, doesn't mean I accept it unconditionally. I think you need to read me more carefully.
Doing those things should be required of every motorist. I was voicing no objection to those. Yes, I know that these vehicles are not street legal in this state, so whatever the law provides for regarding operating illegal vehicles in the street should be applied to them.
And if someone is injured or killed by one, then the same punishments would and should apply as would apply if the person had been driving a licensed car when that occurred, on top of whatever penalties apply for operating an unregistered motor vehicle.
But road spikes? Vehicle confiscation? That sounds like overreacting to a new nuisance. (Do we confiscate the vehicles of people who kill someone when driving under the influence? AFAIK, the only time we do this is in a civil-asset-forfeiture situation, where the vehicle belongs to someone who was engaged in drug trafficking or suchlike.) And acting like this is a threat to the social order (as opposed to the social peace) is overreacting.
Did you read what I said at the end about "broken window theory"? Or, for that matter, violating noise ordinances? Just because I can understand the motivation for something, or even that I can approve of it in certain contexts and situations, doesn't mean I accept it unconditionally. I think you need to read me more carefully.
Motorists driving street legal vehicles who get pulled over without the proper paperwork have their vehicles impounded. As they should. The vehicle doesn't get crushed. But, if the owner doesn't come back for it, it will be auctioned off.
I see no problem with crushing vehicles that aren't street legal. Don't want it crushed? Obey the laws.
I read you just fine - you're a soft on order guy. Enjoy the ghetto.
BTW, one of these 'nuisance' riders shot another one in the face at Castor and Aramingo (where hundreds of them gather on weekends) last night.
Just boys being boys.
Just more reason for people to flee the city.
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