Official Greater Philadelphia Area Crime Thread (Washington, California: electric, winters, entertainment)

[ilovephilly79]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I respectfully disagree on this one...

1. No one suggested this is on the level of gun violence. And why is everything treated as an either or scenario. The city can focus on the gun violence problem AND simultaneously focus on other issues such as this one.

2. The ATV / bike situation is more than an annoyance. It is a noise concern, safety concern, and lately incidents of violence and possible connections to shootings from these packs of riders. Teenagers playing ding-dong ditch is an annoyance, this is a major concern that goes well beyond just Broad Street. The fact that City Council unanimously agreed shows the extent of it.

3. A crack-down on this problem is not a waste of tax dollars. We all pay taxes regardless, if they go toward improving health, safety, QOL, then I am satisfied. There are plenty of actual wasteful uses of our tax dollars in a city like Philadelphia, lets not forget that.

This also is a deterrent for people wanting to live in the city. You are a cheerleader for population growth, adding more affluent residents, etc., you think a daily parade of this will not have adverse affects on the city's attractiveness?...

4. Article today... Appears the ATV / bike riders are showing their discontent with the new bill by riding throughout the city causing even more health & safety concerns. It is apparent these are not "kids having fun", they are questionable people with no regard for law or safety. They get no sympathy from me.

ATVs and dirt bikes take to the streets of Philly as the city tries to step up enforcement

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20210613.html


(I asked a friend of mine about this. He lives just off S. Broad and works in CC. He witnesses the hoards almost daily, and said they ride on sidewalks, rev their engines at cars, cyclists, flip people off, and on more than 1 occasion he has seen them come within feet of pedestrians, including a stroller. He said the problem got worse during the pandemic and has not subsided even as the city comes back to life. This mess is 1 ride away from catastrophe. Plus, the connections to violence, shootings, illegal carry of firearms is starting to show with these riders too).

But it's not an issue to worry about...

Edit to add: The creation of a large riding area or park may be a wise compromise IF AND ONLY IF the riders agree to stop illegally roaming the streets. But that is a large ask financially and from these riders since they don't care about laws or safety.

Preach it cpomp. Couldn't agree more.

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me about a "riding area" or "park" is that these folks are not looking for a place they can ride like skateboarders. The whole allure is the invasion on public streets and public places. It would be akin to saying we should open up a murder park and let people go in there and just shoot each other so they have a place to "get it out of their system". That misses the allure and the point completely. These people are troublemakers looking to do all the things you mentioned and a park would be a useless waste of money.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Great post cpomp!




^^^ It appears to me that a big component of these rides is a "look at me, look at me!" thing. An ATV park would not feed the thrill they get from riding through the streets so I doubt they will be interested. They want an audience for their shenanigans.

I may not be all macho, tough-guy, tough-on-crime, but I do understand the need for social order, and just because I get the above doesn't mean that I'm fine with the behavior (or with unauthorized graffiti for that matter).

My concern was mainly that we don't treat these people differently from other similar offenders simply because they're Black guys. I think that's a legit danger that arises in cases like this, and I was reacting to that.

If we impound unregistered cars, fine, let's seize the dirt bikes when they're ridden on the street, since they're not street legal.

And let's do whatever we need to apply the noise ordinances to these riders, and if they're threatening people, charge them with the appropriate felony count(s) and haul them off.

And it looks like we may have to set up police barricades if we know a pack of riders is coming up Broad Street.

But (and I may be presuming here) it seemed to me that rowhomecity caught a whiff of the lynch mob in the initial reactions. So did I. But since the problem is manifesting itself in Center City through swarms and flash mobs (by contrast, I hear those bikes on Chelten Avenue only on occasion, and so far, never in a large pack), then we will need to come up with strategies appropriate to the problem.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I may not be all macho, tough-guy, tough-on-crime, but I do understand the need for social order, and just because I get the above doesn't mean that I'm fine with the behavior (or with unauthorized graffiti for that matter).

My concern was mainly that we don't treat these people differently from other similar offenders simply because they're Black guys. I think that's a legit danger that arises in cases like this, and I was reacting to that.

If we impound unregistered cars, fine, let's seize the dirt bikes when they're ridden on the street, since they're not street legal.

And let's do whatever we need to apply the noise ordinances to these riders, and if they're threatening people, charge them with the appropriate felony count(s) and haul them off.

And it looks like we may have to set up police barricades if we know a pack of riders is coming up Broad Street.

But (and I may be presuming here) it seemed to me that rowhomecity caught a whiff of the lynch mob in the initial reactions. So did I. But since the problem is manifesting itself in Center City through swarms and flash mobs (by contrast, I hear those bikes on Chelten Avenue only on occasion, and so far, never in a large pack), then we will need to come up with strategies appropriate to the problem.

I'm not sure how anything you wrote relates to the post you quoted.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by PHL10

I'm not sure how anything you wrote relates to the post you quoted.

I had written upthread that these people and graffiti artists did what they did to advertise themselves, and that they did this because the usual avenues others use to do this they didn't have access to.

I perceived your post above as making much the same point.

The rest references the back-and-forth I had with Hedonism that flowed from that post.

[Hedonism]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

He wasn't mocking Seattle with that video from a Seattle TV station.

He was saying that if we're not careful, we will end up there too.

Thank you.

[Hedonism]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I respectfully disagree on this one...

1. No one suggested this is on the level of gun violence. And why is everything treated as an either or scenario. The city can focus on the gun violence problem AND simultaneously focus on other issues such as this one.

2. The ATV / bike situation is more than an annoyance. It is a noise concern, safety concern, and lately incidents of violence and possible connections to shootings from these packs of riders. Teenagers playing ding-dong ditch is an annoyance, this is a major concern that goes well beyond just Broad Street. The fact that City Council unanimously agreed shows the extent of it.

3. A crack-down on this problem is not a waste of tax dollars. We all pay taxes regardless, if they go toward improving health, safety, QOL, then I am satisfied. There are plenty of actual wasteful uses of our tax dollars in a city like Philadelphia, lets not forget that.

This also is a deterrent for people wanting to live in the city. You are a cheerleader for population growth, adding more affluent residents, etc., you think a daily parade of this will not have adverse affects on the city's attractiveness?...

4. Article today... Appears the ATV / bike riders are showing their discontent with the new bill by riding throughout the city causing even more health & safety concerns. It is apparent these are not "kids having fun", they are questionable people with no regard for law or safety. They get no sympathy from me.

ATVs and dirt bikes take to the streets of Philly as the city tries to step up enforcement

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20210613.html


(I asked a friend of mine about this. He lives just off S. Broad and works in CC. He witnesses the hoards almost daily, and said they ride on sidewalks, rev their engines at cars, cyclists, flip people off, and on more than 1 occasion he has seen them come within feet of pedestrians, including a stroller. He said the problem got worse during the pandemic and has not subsided even as the city comes back to life. This mess is 1 ride away from catastrophe. Plus, the connections to violence, shootings, illegal carry of firearms is starting to show with these riders too).

But it's not an issue to worry about...

Edit to add: The creation of a large riding area or park may be a wise compromise IF AND ONLY IF the riders agree to stop illegally roaming the streets. But that is a large ask financially and from these riders since they don't care about laws or safety.

Well said!

[Hedonism]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

My concern was mainly that we don't treat these people differently from other similar offenders simply because they're Black guys. I think that's a legit danger that arises in cases like this, and I was reacting to that.

Nobody cares that they're black.
Stop living in 1953.

White and Hispanic (and Asian if you look hard enough) are doing the same thing.


We care that they're low life, trouble making scum.

[ilovephilly79]

Originally Posted by Hedonism

Nobody cares that they're black.
Stop living in 1953.

White and Hispanic (and Asian if you look hard enough) are doing the same thing.


We care that they're low life, trouble making scum.

That's how I feel. I could not care less what color their skin is. They're troublemakers that are problematic on a number of levels. Stop making it about skin color when it isn't.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Hedonism

Nobody cares that they're black.
Stop living in 1953.

White and Hispanic (and Asian if you look hard enough) are doing the same thing.


We care that they're low life, trouble making scum.

It's still an issue even now, even if you don't see it as one, but I'll take your word for it on the remainder of your comment.

[Hedonism]

West Mount Airy:


https://6abc.com/philly-officer-shoo...airy/10791851/


Nowhere is safe.