Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Boston: home, neighborhood, schools)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Agree. We stopped travel from China in late Jan 2020, but continued to let people in from Europe (where it was raging) all through February 2020. Part of that led to the infamous Biogen superspreader event. By contrast, countries in the Asia-Pacific region clamped down on all travel, and held fast. As a result, they've thrived amid normalcy without vaccines.

It's not accurate to say that we stopped "all" travel from China. We continued to allow Americans to return from China, without facing enforced quarantining. That was a huge part of the problem.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

I agreed with most of this post except the highlighted section. Where on earth did you see any evidence of that??

It looks like the innate and adaptive immune systems have coevolved to work together and regulate each other. I think the traditional understanding is that the innate immune system is the instant response and the adaptive takes some time to boot up. But it's more complex than that. There is some evidence that the adaptive immune system actually has an important role in downregulation of the innate reponse. The purpose of this would be to prevent damaging autoimmune response. inflammation or cytokine storm.

Viral infection or administration of poly(I:C), a ligand for TLR3, led to cytokine storm in T-cell- or lymphocyte-deficient mice in a fashion dependent on NK cells and tumor necrosis factor. We have further shown, through the depletion of CD4+ and CD8+ cells in wild-type mice and the transfer of T lymphocytes into Rag-1–deficient mice, respectively, that T cells are both necessary and sufficient to temper the early innate response. In addition to the effects of natural regulatory T cells, close contact of resting CD4+CD25−Foxp3− or CD8+ T cells with innate cells could also suppress the cytokine surge by various innate cells in an antigen-independent fashion. Therefore, adaptive immune cells have an unexpected role in tempering initial innate responses.

Current dogma holds that the innate immune system primes the adaptive immune system in response to infection, which in turn amplifies innate responses in a positive loop to effectively control pathogens. Therefore, it is accepted in most cases that T-cell deficient hosts die of acute infection because of the impaired ability of the innate immune system to control pathogens. Recent studies, however, reveal that adaptive immune cells actively dampen initial innate responses. In contrast to current understanding, there is now evidence that an insufficient number of T cells results in loss of control of innate immune responses. This raises new questions regarding the, as of yet underappreciated, role of the adaptive immune system in early infection and inflammation.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1633

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7185383/

CD4+CD25+ regulatory T cells (Treg) that suppress T cell-mediated immune responses may also regulate other arms of an effective immune response. In particular, in this study we show that Treg directly inhibit NKG2D-mediated NK cell cytotoxicity in vitro and in vivo, effectively suppressing NK cell-mediated tumor rejection. In vitro, Treg were shown to inhibit NKG2D-mediated cytolysis largely by a TGF-β-dependent mechanism and independently of IL-10. Adoptively transferred Treg suppressed NK cell antimetastatic function in RAG-1-deficient mice. Depletion of Treg before NK cell activation via NKG2D and the activating IL-12 cytokine, dramatically enhanced NK cell-mediated suppression of tumor growth and metastases. Our data illustrate at least one mechanism by which Treg can suppress NK cell antitumor activity and highlight the effectiveness of combining Treg inhibition with subsequent NK cell activation to promote strong innate antitumor immunity.

https://www.jimmunol.org/content/176/3/1582.long

Maybe this is all wrong or doesn't apply here. Could well be. It seems that SOME COVID deaths are related to an innate immune cascade of inflammation and cytokine storm.

So in terms of how the mRNA vaccine works:

The ability of mRNA and AdV vaccines to promote intracellular production of S protein along with innate immune responses should prime both CD8+ and CD4+ T cells to differentiate into effector and memory subsets. In particular, vaccine-driven production of type I interferon promotes differentiation of CD4+ and CD8+ effector T cells producing inflammatory and cytotoxic mediators, and CD4+ T follicular helper (TFH) cells, which promote B cell differentiation into antibody-secreting plasma cells (Fig. 1). Both the mRNA and AdV vaccines require two doses spaced 3–4 weeks apart to promote optimal protection and have been associated with mild to moderate side effects, including injection site pain, transient fever and chills, which can be augmented with the second dose. This secondary enhancement of the inflammatory response can derive from short-term changes to innate cells like macrophages through a phenomenon called ‘trained immunity’9, and/or from activation of memory T cells and B cells generated from the initial injection. Type I interferon has been shown to amplify T cell memory and promote B cell differentiation and survival, suggesting vaccine-associated inflammation in the booster can further promote generation and perpetuation of long-term immunological memory.

(https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00526-x)

on trained immunity

The concept of trained immunity describes the long-term functional reprogramming of innate immune cells, which is evoked by exogenous or endogenous insults and which leads to an altered response towards a second challenge after the return to a non-activated state.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0285-6

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by massnative71

It's not accurate to say that we stopped "all" travel from China. We continued to allow Americans to return from China, without facing enforced quarantining. That was a huge part of the problem.

Right now Australia is not allowing Australians in India to go back to Australia. I don't know how they can actually say that legally. I would argue quarantine in would be the best solution they're not to outright deny your own citizens to come back

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by massnative71

It's not accurate to say that we stopped "all" travel from China. We continued to allow Americans to return from China, without facing enforced quarantining. That was a huge part of the problem.

Maybe you're right. I've heard that something like 40,000 US citizens and permanent residents returned from China after the travel ban. But everything I've heard, in terms of the strain that hit MA and NY, is that we should have clamped down on travel from Europe at the same time.

[id77]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Agree. We stopped travel from China in late Jan 2020, but continued to let people in from Europe (where it was raging) all through February 2020. Part of that led to the infamous Biogen superspreader event. By contrast, countries in the Asia-Pacific region clamped down on all travel, and held fast. As a result, they've thrived amid normalcy without vaccines.

Even later than that. I returned home from the UK in late March and, while they pretty much rounded up all the non-US citizens and turned them around the next morning, I was allowed in with literally no guidance from Customs. Heathrow was diligent about warning us we may need to quarantine, but upon arrival Logan shrugged and was like “whatever”.

[porterhouse]

Originally Posted by queerfaith

My child works with someone who lost a good friend a couple of weeks ago. A Fully vaccinated 60 years old-to COVID. These variants are tricky-remove your masks at your own risk.

Latest data on breakthrough infections out of the CDC:

95,000,000+ fully vaccinated
6720 symptomatic infections (0.007%)
594 COVID-related hospitalizations (0.0006%)
112 COVID-related deaths (0.0001%)

[queerfaith]

Originally Posted by id77

Still mixed signals. I’m not challenging any of what you’re saying, but it’s also not what’s being told to the population at large. Consider for a moment the following scenario:

I develop mild symptoms: cough and fever. They persist for several days, so I call my doctor’s office. If I don’t know what I have, the response I’ll get is to stay home, get plenty of rest, stay hydrated, and take OTC meds to treat my symptoms. If I test positive for COVID, the response I’ll get is to ... stay home, get plenty of rest, stay hydrated, and take OTC meds to treat my symptoms. In both cases, only if symptoms worsen am I to schedule an appointment to see my doctor. There’s no talk of monoclonal antibodies or Ivermectin. Im not in an ICU. I’m just another person with mild symptoms who is more likely than not to recover on my own; only when that changes does treatment change.

The point I’m making is that if the flow chart for how doctors are going to treat my illness doesn’t change until a certain point in my illness, there’s nothing to be gained by knowing what I even have unless I also progress past the point of mild symptoms. Moreover, if I do get worse, the next step on my end is the same: see a doctor.

If I’m at home with a cough and fever, what does knowing it’s COVID change other than creating anxiety around me as my friends and family proceed to freak out over it?

If I were unvaccinated (prior to being eligible) and developed covid like symptoms I would call MD and demand immediate testing, or get immediate testing somewhere...Then contact my MD or any MD that would treat me immediately with monoclonal antibodies or Ivermectin, because I lost a friend to COVID under the circumstances of not getting vaccinated or treated early. And if I get symptoms now as a vaccinated person-I will do the same! The MD's need firm direction at this time.

[queerfaith]

Staying home and resting until you are in bad shape may be your Death sentence!

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by queerfaith

Staying home and resting until you are in bad shape may be your Death sentence!

With respiratory illnesses, you don't necessarily feel *that* bad, even when you're actually in dire straits. It was 30+ years ago, but I had been diagnosed with pneumonia by my PCP after a chest X-ray. I felt my condition worsen and actually called his office, but the office staff essentially said "Meh, you're fine" and waved me off... I was dizzy and light-headed, and I could tell my breathing was oddly shallow - and I hadn't connected that to the underlying physiology, but I was low on blood oxygen because my lungs were filled with fluid. Fortunately, I made it... When I came into his office days later and told this to my PCP, he said "Holy s---! I'll speak to my staff so they don't do that again, but if that ever happens, don't even call us, go straight to the hospital!"... if I had passed out, I'd likely never have woken up again... and about 10 years ago, my father almost died at home of pneumonia. He hadn't even gone to the doctor because he didn't think he was that sick. Fortunately my Mom was still alive then and when she couldn't find him, she looked in the bathroom where she found him unconscious on the floor and called 911. Were she not there, he'd have died.

[mdovell]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/...vid-hot-spots/

Uh oh

"Boston University, like several other area institutions, is requiring students to be inoculated before arriving on campus in the fall. While that shouldn’t be a problem for American students, nearly one third of its enrollees are from other countries.

For that reason, the school will allow its international students to be vaccinated in their home countries, *even if the vaccines used haven’t been approved for use in the United States*, according to Jean Morrison, BU’s provost and chief academic officer. However, depending on federal requirements in the fall, those students may have to quarantine on arrival."

What?!?