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Paul it is those type of statment that show forth an eleitist attitude, you might not have ment it that way, but it surely comes across that way.
It would be no different than if I said to you after you saying that does not mesh with what I see.
Yeah, I expect the majority doesn't understand spiritual truth.
Can you not see how eleitist that type of statments sounds?
I'm sorry if it came across that way. And yes I can see how that might sound to you. I do have a great confidence in many things I preach but not me as I like to say but Him in me. I'm hoping you look up that phrase "Bible typology" and learn more about it.
What is that supposed to mean ? I understand bible typology i do not assume i have the final word on types and shadows and neither do you , the type and shadow only works only if it is a type and shadow , one calling fire down, and disciples being rebuked for asking to do the same is not a type or a shadow of the 2 incidents.
But pcamps, I never was attempting to associate the Elijah calling down fire from heaven to the disciples asking Jesus to call it down as a type. I was only responding to the differences. If I were going to compare Elijah calling Fire down from Heaven then I would be associating that with the Fire of the Holy Spirit that comes down to destroy the wicked nature of man. That is the ACTUAL type that would be associated with Elijah calling fire down from Heaven.
But pcamps, I never was attempting to associate the Elijah calling down fire from heaven to the disciples asking Jesus to call it down as a type. I was only responding to the differences. If I were going to compare Elijah calling Fire down from Heaven then I would be associating that with the Fire of the Holy Spirit that comes down to destroy the wicked nature of man. That is the ACTUAL type that would be associated with Elijah calling fire down from Heaven.
Paul
That i would agree with but my first post was about reconciling the opposing positions , not seeking to see how the 2 were types and shadows.
I didn't have time to read much, so not sure what Paul said. Was repsonding to pcamps "But how is the Elijah calling down fire from heaven a type of Jesus rebuking James and John for requesting to do so ?"
What I said was different than the quote. I did not make Elijah calling fire down from heaven a type of Jesus rebuking the disciples.
Quote:
The case in point is Elijah actually called down fire from heaven that consumed the prophets of Baal.
John and the boys wanted to do the same thing to those who opposed them.
Jesus said ye not not what manner of spirit ye are of BECAUSE John and the boys wanted to do the SAME thing Elijah did.
I agree.
Quote:
The only way your typology works is if what Elijah did was only symbolic and not an actual happening.
I think I kind of see where you are going here, and have grappled with what I think you are saying. But I have not come to any certain conclusion either way as you seem to have since you say "the ONLY way..."
But I'm not positive I understand your reasoning here. Please spell out why you say that's the only way it could be a type as I described.
Also, let me ask a related question. Do you believe God literally wiped out most of the world in the flood?
But pcamps, I never was attempting to associate the Elijah calling down fire from heaven to the disciples asking Jesus to call it down as a type. I was only responding to the differences. If I were going to compare Elijah calling Fire down from Heaven then I would be associating that with the Fire of the Holy Spirit that comes down to destroy the wicked nature of man. That is the ACTUAL type that would be associated with Elijah calling fire down from Heaven.
Paul
You can't just compare PART of what happened though Paul.
And your missing the point.
Elijah actually called fire down from heaven and consummed the prophets of Baal.
John and the boys wanted to do the same thing.
Jesus said ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
What where asking is why was it ok for Elijah to call down fire and not John and the boys?
In other words was Elijah just as mistaken in what he did and John and the boys were in what they wanted to do.
That i would agree with but my first post was about reconciling the opposing positions , not seeking to see how the 2 were types and shadows.
I was making an observation about the carnal and the spiritual and how that relates to the covenants. Pcamps, you are the one that asked how any of it related to Elijah and I answered.
I think I kind of see where you are going here, and have grappled with what I think you are saying. But I have not come to any certain conclusion either way as you seem to have since you say "the ONLY way..."
Please spell out why you say that's the only way.
LOL Bob I did not really mean anything by it, it is just the way I expressed myself.
But I think I understand what you thought I was speaking of and although this scripture we are speaking about would seem to back that way of thinking up I see to many other scriptures that do not line up with that way of thinking.
You can't just compare PART of what happened though Paul.
And your missing the point.
Elijah actually called fire down from heaven and consummed the prophets of Baal.
John and the boys wanted to do the same thing.
Jesus said ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
What where asking is why was it ok for Elijah to call down fire and not John and the boys?
In other words was Elijah just as mistaken in what he did and John and the boys were in what they wanted to do.
You act as if I don't believe that Elijah ACTUALLY called and seen and observed fire consuming actually people. You act as if I don't believe that the disciples wanted to do the same thing. I never said such or meant to imply such. I ACTUALLY do believe that Elijah did call fire down but it DOES NOT REMOVE the understanding of me that this was a SPIRITUAL message of much more significance than just destroying the captains and their teams.
Why it was Ok for Elijah to do so was that he was fulfilling the Old Covenant PERSPECTIVE. The disciples were to understand the TRUTH which is in the New Covenant PERSPECTIVE. In other words, think of what Elijah did as being a parable (the whole old covenant is like this) whereby you are given to know an earthly perspective from which you must understand the Spiritual message. The Passover Lamb is a great example of that because people easily see that the Passover Lamb refers to Jesus Christ. John the Baptist is the last major figure I see fulfilling the Earthly Covenant perspective in that he plays a STARRING role in that He pictures the coming of Jesus Christ Himself.
You act as if I don't believe that Elijah ACTUALLY called and seen and observed fire consuming actually people. You act as if I don't believe that the disciples wanted to do the same thing. I never said such or meant to imply such. I ACTUALLY do believe that Elijah did call fire down but it DOES NOT REMOVE the understanding of me that this was a SPIRITUAL message of much more significance than just destroying the captains and their teams.
That NOT what I said or implied at all brother, I even said your missing the point, camps and I were not looking for a type we were asking why was it okay for Elijah an not John and the boys.
I think there was confusion of what we were asking and what you were saying , for the one did not answer the other.
Quote:
Why it was Ok for Elijah to do so was that he was fulfilling the Old Covenant PERSPECTIVE. The disciples were to understand the TRUTH which is in the New Covenant PERSPECTIVE. In other words, think of what Elijah did as being a parable (the whole old covenant is like this) whereby you are given to know an earthly perspective from which you must understand the Spiritual message. The Passover Lamb is a great example of that because people easily see that the Passover Lamb refers to Jesus Christ. John the Baptist is the last major figure I see fulfilling the Earthly Covenant perspective in that he plays a STARRING role in that He pictures the coming of Jesus Christ Himself.
I disagree with that because God does not change His ways, and I don't believe it was ok for OT people to do what they did and all of a sudden it is not ok.
As to the type you gave forth I don't really have a problem with that.
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