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Old 08-19-2022, 04:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtolympus View Post
Very interesting observation. There seems to be a pattern here. Also, the time from the attack on Pearl Harbor until the end of WWII was about 3 1/2 years. However, I don't believe this is the tribulation period which will be immediately before the second coming of Christ.
In Scripture I find the great tribulation (Rev. 7:14,9) comes right before: Armageddon - Rev. 19:14-15; Isaiah 11:3-4.
Armageddon God's War to end all wars - Psalm 46:9
* In Noah's Day (Matt. 24:37) the end came; hard and swift.
* For Sodom and Gomorrah the end came: hard and swift.
* In the year 70 when the Roman armies destroyed un-faithful Jerusalem the end came: hard and swift.
So the pattern is set that the great tribulation will also be: hard and swift.
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Old 08-19-2022, 04:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
We are going to have to disagree then on the things on which we disagree.
No problem, I appreciate your comments.

A pre-tribulation rapture would certainly be a wonderful way to live through the tribulation. Someday, if I find a lot of people are missing and see their piles of clothes scattered around (as per movie "Left Behind"), I will know I made a big mistake. Until then, I will keep looking for answers from the Bible.

A verse in the Book of Revelation tells of some who came out of the great tribulation. If they came out of the tribulation, apparently they lived through the tribulation.

"And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14)

Here is an article which tells the best way I know of to come out of the great tribulation:
The Promise of Passover in the Last Days
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Old 08-19-2022, 04:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
In Scripture I find the great tribulation (Rev. 7:14,9) comes right before: Armageddon - Rev. 19:14-15; Isaiah 11:3-4.
Armageddon God's War to end all wars - Psalm 46:9
* In Noah's Day (Matt. 24:37) the end came; hard and swift.
* For Sodom and Gomorrah the end came: hard and swift.
* In the year 70 when the Roman armies destroyed un-faithful Jerusalem the end came: hard and swift.
So the pattern is set that the great tribulation will also be: hard and swift.
The opening of the 7th seal is the beginning the millennium. This is the 1000 years during which Christ will reign on earth. The sound of seven trumpets begin the great tribulation. This may be hard and swift as you say.

However, at the beginning of the millennium there will be a half hour of silence in heaven before these trumpets begin. One half hour in a millennial day (1000 years) equals about 20.8 years.

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets." (Revelation 8:1-2)

The Promise of Passover in the Last Days
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Old 08-19-2022, 04:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtolympus View Post
This is in response to Matthew 4:4's request: "Please post a NT passage or verse or two that you have in mind."
Revelation 7:9,13-15

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Thank you for your reference and along with Re. 7:9 I find is Rev. 21:3 because the tent/dwelling of God is with: Man.
Man on Earth (spiritual Israel - Romans 2:28-29) and since Pentecost Not literal fleshly nation of Israel - 1st Peter 2:5,9.
So, we are speaking about a spiritual temple, God's spiritual temple.- John 2:21; Rev. 7:15-17; Rev. 21:3-15.
Starting with the great crowd (Isaiah 26:20) who come through the great tribulation and Armageddon alive on Earth.
Then, people like David (Acts 2:34; 24:15) Jesus will resurrect to be a Prince on Earth - Psalm 45:16; Ezekiel 34:24.

In Ezekiel's vision (40-48) the temple has: 6 gateways, 30 dining rooms, the Holy and Most Holy, a wooden altar, and an altar for burnt offerings, and the stream of water that becomes a torrent (47:1)
This vision was never built but pictures 'God's spiritual temple' with this vision being fulfilled in our day.
- This vision of pure godly worship being restored in our day - Ezekiel 40:2; Micah 4:1; Hebrews 8:2; 9:23-24.
True worship now being refined - Ezekiel 44:10-16; Malachi 3:1-3
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtolympus View Post
The opening of the 7th seal is the beginning the millennium. This is the 1000 years during which Christ will reign on earth. The sound of seven trumpets begin the great tribulation. This may be hard and swift as you say.
However, at the beginning of the millennium there will be a half hour of silence in heaven before these trumpets begin. One half hour in a millennial day (1000 years) equals about 20.8 years.
"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets." (Revelation 8:1-2)...................
First of all, much of Revelation is symbolic, in signs and Not literal - Rev. 1:1
So, the symbolic half hour does Not have to mean a literal 20.8 years.
I see ' prayer ' is associated with silence at Rev. 8:3-4 ( incense also associated with prayers - Rev. 5:8; Psalm 141:1-2)
To me, Not at the beginning, but before the Millennium - Rev. 1:10 the Lord's Day meaning our day, our time frame setting.
Which connects us to Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21.
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mtolympus View Post
................A verse in the Book of Revelation tells of some who came out of the great tribulation. If they came out of the tribulation, apparently they lived through the tribulation.
"And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14)..................
Yes, and if you read Isaiah 26:20 you will read how coming out of the tribulation is Not any rapture idea.
No one was raptured in Noah's Day - Matthew 24;37
No one was raptured at Sodom and Gomorrah
No one was raptured in the year 70 when un-faithful Jerusalem was destroyed.
No one was raptured at the Red Sea or during the last plague on Egypt.
Jesus taught about and demonstrated 'resurrection' and never any rapture.
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Old 08-20-2022, 01:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Yes, and if you read Isaiah 26:20 you will read how coming out of the tribulation is Not any rapture idea.
No one was raptured in Noah's Day - Matthew 24;37
No one was raptured at Sodom and Gomorrah
No one was raptured in the year 70 when un-faithful Jerusalem was destroyed.
No one was raptured at the Red Sea or during the last plague on Egypt.
Jesus taught about and demonstrated 'resurrection' and never any rapture.
This is faulty logic. Whether there is, or is not a rapture before the second coming of Jesus has nothing to do with the above events.

Also, what does Isaiah 26:20 have to do with the great tribulation? Your point does not make sense to me.

"20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast." (Isaiah 26:20)

I do not believe in a rapture in the way many do. However, after the tribulation, when the Lord descends from heaven to reign on earth, some who are alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Yes, some who have died will be resurrected at that time. Read it in these verses, no faulty logic needed.

"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
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Old 08-21-2022, 04:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtolympus View Post
This is faulty logic. Whether there is, or is not a rapture before the second coming of Jesus has nothing to do with the above events.
Also, what does Isaiah 26:20 have to do with the great tribulation? Your point does not make sense to me.
"20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast." (Isaiah 26:20)
I do not believe in a rapture in the way many do. However, after the tribulation, when the Lord descends from heaven to reign on earth, some who are alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Yes, some who have died will be resurrected at that time. Read it in these verses, no faulty logic needed.
"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
'caught up to meet the Lord in the air' sounds as if you are saying they leave their flesh and blood behind because flesh and blood according to 1st Cor. 15:50 can Not inherit the kingdom in heaven.
( side note: one young man told me they take just their bones with them. To me bones are physical just a flesh and blood are physical )

Jesus was not caught up in the clouds until the resurrected Jesus ascended to heaven - Acts 1:9.
Yes, Lord Jesus has the Archangel's voice 1st Thess. 4:16 . Lord Jesus has his own voice The Archangel's.

I chose Isaiah 26:20 to our day because the Israelites were saved (delivered/rescued) by being inside - Exodus 12:22-23
We also find Noah ' inside ' so to speak at Genesis 7:16.
The Psalmist also speaks of shelter as in being hidden / concealed at Psalm 27:5; Psalm 91:4
So, please consider that the pattern is set for the 'indignation' (Armageddon) is past (past for the sheep of Matt. 25:37)
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Old 08-21-2022, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
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The last trump os talked about more than any other day.


The last trump blew the same day last year as it will this year, and when Paul is speaking of the last trump blowing, he is referring to Zechariah 14.


At the last trump, THOSE OF US LEFT ALIVE.


The ones who don't melt where they are standing as Zechariah 14 insinuates of everyone who rejects and speajs ill of the feast of tabernacles.( We who are still alive at the awakening blast who arent enemies to Jerusalem when the last trump sounds)

The awakening blast of the last trump is not some new concept, it is part of the science of trumpets where the temple is literally called," The house of trumpets."

The first trump sounds on Pentecost, the last trump sounds on Rosh Hashanah.

The great trump sounds on Yom Kippur.

The day of the last trump is explained and more detailed than any other day in the entire system.
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Old 08-21-2022, 07:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
'caught up to meet the Lord in the air' sounds as if you are saying they leave their flesh and blood behind because flesh and blood according to 1st Cor. 15:50 can Not inherit the kingdom in heaven.
( side note: one young man told me they take just their bones with them. To me bones are physical just a flesh and blood are physical )

Jesus was not caught up in the clouds until the resurrected Jesus ascended to heaven - Acts 1:9.
Yes, Lord Jesus has the Archangel's voice 1st Thess. 4:16 . Lord Jesus has his own voice The Archangel's.
I didn't say it, the Apostle Paul said it. Did you read the verses?

"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

You throw scriptures around like confetti. The issue is do you believe what Paul said, or not?
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