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Old 08-17-2022, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,138 posts, read 10,434,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
None of this has been fulfilled.
O yes it has Danny,

Ezekiel ~ JESUS FULFILLED THIS
These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. 11But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

Ezekiel made Passover and Tabernacles the same day, he made Yom Kippur to fall on Passover and Tabernacles, he made Pentecost to fall on Passover and Tabernacles.


This is how Jesus was all the sacrifices on a single day, and the next one approaches, on Tishri 15, all the holy days will occur.



You are reading of a river flowing from the temple, THIS RIVER IS ALIVE AND HAS ALL THE POWER AND AUTHORITY TO CURSE OR BLESS



John
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.




Jerusalem has been raised up higher than all the nations.





Whether you know it or not, Jesus came to Ezekiel's temple and he abided according to the law Ezekiel changed and had Ezekiel not changed the law, we would have no boast in Jesus whatsover, but Ezekiel changed the law to make it an ever expanding temple like no other temple, and when we measure the expansion of the temple by Revelation, that temple had expanded 1500 miles wide, 1500 miles long, and 1500 miles straight the freak up into spce.





Jesus DID COME AS THE PRINCE OF EZEKIEL AND FOR A CHRISTIAN TO ARGUE THIS POINT IS NOT TO BE DONE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, JESUS IS THE PROOF, EZEKIEL PROVES JESUS. Jesus was all the sacrifices Ezekiel pointed to on one day.



Jesus became angry and grabbed a whip BECAUSE OF EZEKIEL'S PRINCE RULES.




HERE IS THE GREATEST FACT OF JESUS FULFILLING EZEKIEL"S PROPHECY.


THE BIGGEST PROOF MESSIAH CAME AND FULFILLED.



Ezekiel's GREATEST PROPHECY THAT JESUS FULFILLED


EZEKIEL
21In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. 22And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering. 23And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering. 24And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah. 25In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil.



Had Jesus not fulfilled this prophesy, we would not be talking, Ezekiel changed the laws to fit the messiah because what od said here is much more than meets the eye.

Ezekiel changed all the holy days where there will be ONLY 2.

ONLY TWO HOLY DAYS.


The first was of course, Passover, biy that is only the first coming of Jesus where Yom Kippur took place on Passover, Pentecost took place on Passover.


Jesus literally fulfilled all the sacrifice on one single day BECAUSE EZEKIEL MOVED THEMMM ALL TO NISAN 14, AND THEN TO TISHRI 15TH.


Jesus fulfilled the spring rain where he furst came as a man for 42 months, but now we await the second rain where AGAIN, EZEKIEL MOVED ALL HOLY DAYS AND THEIR SACRIFICES TO TISHRI 15TH.


OR ELSE HOW IN SOME CRAZY WORLD COULD WE CLAIM JESUS AS A GOAT OF YOM KIPPUR ON PASSOVER, OR HOW COULD WE KILL A BULL OF SUKKOT ON PASSOVER?


THERE HAS NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER BEEN A BULL OF SUKKOT KILLED ON PASSOVER EXCEPT JESUS.


Jesus came making fishers of men to save them from the waters just like Ezekiel states after the holy river flowing from the temple blesses the waters..



Ezekiel was a rare individual, he was both priest and prophet and he understood the temple better than any other author.


Jesus has been building Ezekiel's expanding temple since he came, Ezekiel's temple is sheer symbolism, the temple not made of hands

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 08-17-2022 at 08:00 PM..
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Old 08-18-2022, 12:18 AM
 
332 posts, read 84,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Nazi's territorial expansion (which led to WW II) began in 1938? That was about the time the Jews lost any protection under the laws of Germany and the Final Solution was begun. The "tribulation" of the Holocaust lasted until 1945 (approximately 7 years). Just saying.
Very interesting observation. There seems to be a pattern here. Also, the time from the attack on Pearl Harbor until the end of WWII was about 3 1/2 years. However, I don't believe this is the tribulation period which will be immediately before the second coming of Christ.
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Old 08-18-2022, 02:01 AM
 
332 posts, read 84,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
I can and have done so in the past. But once again, so far as the rapture being before the Tribulation, Paul places the rapture of the church before the Tribulation - the Day of the Lord when he refers to the rapture and resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and the Day of the Lord in chapter 5 and states in 5:9 that God has not appointed us (the church) for wrath, but for obtaining salvation (deliverance from the Day of the Lord).

As far as the Tribulation being 7 years goes, Daniel's seventy weeks in Daniel 9:24-27 seem best understood as seventy weeks of years with the seventieth week being the seven year Tribulation. This is how most conservative theologians have understood it.

Furthermore, in the book of Revelation there are three different statements, each of which states in a different way a period of three and a half years. In Revelation 12:6 the woman (Israel) flees into the wilderness to a place prepared by God where she will be protected for a period of one thousand two hundred and sixty days. This would be from the midpoint of the Tribulation to its end. It's at the mid point of the Tribulation that Satan is permanently cast out of heaven to the earth at which time he persecutes the woman (Israel) as per Revelation 12:13. Verse 14 describes that time period as a time and times and half a time - which is 3 1/2 years. A time being one year, times being two years, and half a time being half a year. And then in 13:5 the beast is given authority to blaspheme for 42 months.

So we have one thousand two hundred and sixty days, a time, times and half a time, and 42 months, three different ways of describing a three and a half year period- one half of the seven year Tribulation. This indicates to me a literal period of time rather than being symbolism.

During the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation it is relatively calm for Israel. It isn't until the midway point of the Tribulation that things start going really bad for Israel as it is at that time that the 'prince who is to come' in Daniel 9:26 breaks the covenant he had made with Israel. In Daniel 9:26 he is said to make a covenant with the many for one week - seven years, but in the middle of the week - 3 1/2 years, he breaks that covenant. It seems that at some point Israel will again resume animal sacrifices only to be prohibited half way through the Tribulation from doing so by the 'prince who is to come/the antichrist/ the beast/ the man of lawlessness' - all ways of describing the same person as far as I can tell.

And so based on all that I take the Tribulation to be a literal seven year period. I am a futurist regarding the book of Revelation and somewhat conservative in my understanding of the details of the Tribulation.
Thank you for this very thoughtful and biblically based post in response to my question.

As a Latter-day Saint, I will have a very different perspective on many issues. I am forming my own opinion on what the Bible tells us about the Second Coming. It is only my opinion and not necessarily the view of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The word "rapture" is not in the LDS vocabulary. However, we do believe we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord when he comes. However, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 seems clear that this event will occur at the time when the Lord comes in the clouds of heaven and after the "dead in Christ" rise, rather than before the time of tribulation.

"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 is very important. This is what Jesus told his disciples, in Matthew 24, to watch for, "the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet."

However, Daniel 9:27 does not define the last years as "7 years of tribulation", nor does in mention the antichrist. Though the tribulation will occur within this seven year period, this period is defined by "the overspeading of abominations".

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

Latter-day Saints have temples and "confirm the covenant" in their temples. Therefore, the Jewish temple does not have to be rebuilt to fulfill this prophecy. The Jewish temple will be rebuilt, but possibly after the second coming.
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Old 08-18-2022, 01:48 PM
 
10,438 posts, read 6,969,439 times
Reputation: 11520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
O yes it has Danny,

Ezekiel ~ JESUS FULFILLED THIS
These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. 11But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

Ezekiel made Passover and Tabernacles the same day, he made Yom Kippur to fall on Passover and Tabernacles, he made Pentecost to fall on Passover and Tabernacles.


This is how Jesus was all the sacrifices on a single day, and the next one approaches, on Tishri 15, all the holy days will occur.



You are reading of a river flowing from the temple, THIS RIVER IS ALIVE AND HAS ALL THE POWER AND AUTHORITY TO CURSE OR BLESS



John
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.




Jerusalem has been raised up higher than all the nations.





Whether you know it or not, Jesus came to Ezekiel's temple and he abided according to the law Ezekiel changed and had Ezekiel not changed the law, we would have no boast in Jesus whatsover, but Ezekiel changed the law to make it an ever expanding temple like no other temple, and when we measure the expansion of the temple by Revelation, that temple had expanded 1500 miles wide, 1500 miles long, and 1500 miles straight the freak up into spce.





Jesus DID COME AS THE PRINCE OF EZEKIEL AND FOR A CHRISTIAN TO ARGUE THIS POINT IS NOT TO BE DONE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, JESUS IS THE PROOF, EZEKIEL PROVES JESUS. Jesus was all the sacrifices Ezekiel pointed to on one day.



Jesus became angry and grabbed a whip BECAUSE OF EZEKIEL'S PRINCE RULES.




HERE IS THE GREATEST FACT OF JESUS FULFILLING EZEKIEL"S PROPHECY.


THE BIGGEST PROOF MESSIAH CAME AND FULFILLED.



Ezekiel's GREATEST PROPHECY THAT JESUS FULFILLED


EZEKIEL
21In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. 22And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering. 23And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering. 24And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah. 25In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil.



Had Jesus not fulfilled this prophesy, we would not be talking, Ezekiel changed the laws to fit the messiah because what od said here is much more than meets the eye.

Ezekiel changed all the holy days where there will be ONLY 2.

ONLY TWO HOLY DAYS.


The first was of course, Passover, biy that is only the first coming of Jesus where Yom Kippur took place on Passover, Pentecost took place on Passover.


Jesus literally fulfilled all the sacrifice on one single day BECAUSE EZEKIEL MOVED THEMMM ALL TO NISAN 14, AND THEN TO TISHRI 15TH.


Jesus fulfilled the spring rain where he furst came as a man for 42 months, but now we await the second rain where AGAIN, EZEKIEL MOVED ALL HOLY DAYS AND THEIR SACRIFICES TO TISHRI 15TH.


OR ELSE HOW IN SOME CRAZY WORLD COULD WE CLAIM JESUS AS A GOAT OF YOM KIPPUR ON PASSOVER, OR HOW COULD WE KILL A BULL OF SUKKOT ON PASSOVER?


THERE HAS NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER BEEN A BULL OF SUKKOT KILLED ON PASSOVER EXCEPT JESUS.


Jesus came making fishers of men to save them from the waters just like Ezekiel states after the holy river flowing from the temple blesses the waters..



Ezekiel was a rare individual, he was both priest and prophet and he understood the temple better than any other author.


Jesus has been building Ezekiel's expanding temple since he came, Ezekiel's temple is sheer symbolism, the temple not made of hands
Jesus never visited Ezekiel's Temple he was physically present during the time of the Second Temple. The Temple you're referencing in Revelations, isn't a Temple but its the rebuilding of Jerusalem in Heaven. The 1,500 miles reference, is in terms of the size of the City in Heaven that will be built. There actually is no Temple in heaven.

As for the third temple, saying its symbolic is against mainstream Christianity. There are too many references to quote (which I wrote some before) about its physical presence to even be symbolic. Like I stated before there is certainly a timeline until the third temple is built, and its one of the things in the timeline.

I can only guess the people who do not believe the third Temple would be built, are people who were living in past times and never thought Israel would be recreated and it was "symbolic". The scripture is never wrong, and it will built.
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:47 AM
 
923 posts, read 237,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
Jesus never visited Ezekiel's Temple he was physically present during the time of the Second Temple. The Temple you're referencing in Revelations, isn't a Temple but its the rebuilding of Jerusalem in Heaven. The 1,500 miles reference, is in terms of the size of the City in Heaven that will be built. There actually is no Temple in heaven.

As for the third temple, saying its symbolic is against mainstream Christianity. There are too many references to quote (which I wrote some before) about its physical presence to even be symbolic. Like I stated before there is certainly a timeline until the third temple is built, and its one of the things in the timeline.

I can only guess the people who do not believe the third Temple would be built, are people who were living in past times and never thought Israel would be recreated and it was "symbolic". The scripture is never wrong, and it will built.
If rebuilt, it is not Ezekiel's Temple. His dimensions are not complete. And ANY return to animal sacrifice is an unforgivable sin (Heb 6ff).
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Old 08-19-2022, 10:34 AM
 
10,438 posts, read 6,969,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
If rebuilt, it is not Ezekiel's Temple. His dimensions are not complete. And ANY return to animal sacrifice is an unforgivable sin (Heb 6ff).
Dimensions are complete, i've already posted all the scripture in detail on this thread for you to read.
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Old 08-19-2022, 11:46 AM
 
923 posts, read 237,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
Dimensions are complete, i've already posted all the scripture in detail on this thread for you to read.
They are not complete. The only height dimensions are for the two pillars.
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Old 08-19-2022, 12:14 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,224 posts, read 26,422,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtolympus View Post
Thank you for this very thoughtful and biblically based post in response to my question.

As a Latter-day Saint, I will have a very different perspective on many issues. I am forming my own opinion on what the Bible tells us about the Second Coming. It is only my opinion and not necessarily the view of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The word "rapture" is not in the LDS vocabulary. However, we do believe we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord when he comes. However, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 seems clear that this event will occur at the time when the Lord comes in the clouds of heaven and after the "dead in Christ" rise, rather than before the time of tribulation.

"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 is very important. This is what Jesus told his disciples, in Matthew 24, to watch for, "the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet."

However, Daniel 9:27 does not define the last years as "7 years of tribulation", nor does in mention the antichrist. Though the tribulation will occur within this seven year period, this period is defined by "the overspeading of abominations".

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

Latter-day Saints have temples and "confirm the covenant" in their temples. Therefore, the Jewish temple does not have to be rebuilt to fulfill this prophecy. The Jewish temple will be rebuilt, but possibly after the second coming.
We are going to have to disagree then on the things on which we disagree.
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Old 08-19-2022, 01:41 PM
 
10,438 posts, read 6,969,439 times
Reputation: 11520
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
They are not complete. The only height dimensions are for the two pillars.
Maybe you just cant read, clearly not the case. I pasted all the dimensions and it takes a minute to scroll through the dimensions. Additionally the plans of it have already been made.
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:19 PM
 
923 posts, read 237,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
Maybe you just cant read, clearly not the case. I pasted all the dimensions and it takes a minute to scroll through the dimensions. Additionally the plans of it have already been made.
If you have them post them. I and many others say there aren't any. Don't cop out on this, let's see them.

The size of Ezekiel’s temple is approximately the same size as the boundaries of ancient Jerusalem itself during the second temple era.143 The description by Ezekiel generally lists only lengths and widths, not heights, except for side pillars of 60 cubits (Ezek 40:14).

Jonathan Menn. Biblical Eschatology.
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