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Anybody see exactly where Mink goes off the rails in her reasoning with this one???????
You are the one off the rails, Thrill. You are trying to evaluate the prevalence of ancient recordings from primitive and largely ILLITERATE eras as if they resemble what you are used to or expect from the evidence in the succeeding two millennia!!!
You are the one off the rails, Thrill. You are trying to evaluate the prevalence of ancient recordings from primitive and largely ILLITERATE eras as if they resemble what you are used to or expect from the evidence in the succeeding two millennia!!!
Ohhhh, here we go!
Mystic, when Biblical scholars evaluate the sources and legitimacy of ancient manuscripts do you actually think they are using tools and techniques from 2000 years ago?????? 2000 years ago the idea of Biblical scholarship or ANY scholarship on the study of ancient manuscripts didn't even exist and even if it did how would we know what they were in 2022 CE???????
Sometimes I truly wonder about you, Mystic. You're supposed to be some kind of furshlugginer professor emeritus but it was probably in wood shop.
(Fairly screaming at Mystic): Mystic, forget about me. Jesus' message won't matter a hill of beans to people if you cannot prove to people with historical proof he even existed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wrong! You must have missed the part I capitalized, Thrill. It is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT AND UNNECESSARILY DESTRUCTIVE! You are not saving them from some unearthly evil. You are simply trying to get back at those charlatans who took your money under false pretenses. You seem oblivious to the fact that even though you were victimized by crooked men, God can draw straight lines even with crooked sticks! What you are doing is drawing crooked lines with what you THINK is a straight stick, IMO. Just stop it. All things considered, you are NOT doing something good, Thrill.
Wrong! You must have missed the part I capitalized, Thrill. It is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT AND UNNECESSARILY DESTRUCTIVE! You are not saving them from some unearthly evil. You are simply trying to get back at those charlatans who took your money under false pretenses. You seem oblivious to the fact that even though you were victimized by crooked men, God can draw straight lines even with crooked sticks! What you are doing is drawing crooked lines with what you THINK is a straight stick, IMO. Just stop it. All things considered, you are NOT doing something good, Thrill.
Mystic, let me lay it out for you in black and white because after 2000+ posts it still seems to go over your head:
You and I are like two kids on opposite sides of the globe trying to talk to each other with two tin cans and a string. I don't believe for a second you ever had a genuine encounter with Jesus because I have proven in the other thread--and so have dozens of reputable scholars with PhD's--that Jesus of the gospels never existed. What you had I am convinced is a dream or hallucination based on your perceptions of what Jesus looked like and what he might have said. I'll bet my last dollar this Jesus looked to you exactly like the famous photos of Jesus we see everywhere.
So I am not hurting anyone by pulling the veil off the mistaken notion that Jesus is the savior of mankind. There's no truth to that any more than there is truth to the idea that Krishna is the savior of mankind. I am trying to expose the dirty dealings and deceptions the church has pulled for centuries on unsuspecting people, tricking them into joining Christianity based on false promises. If I can save people from falling for all the nonsense Christianity throws out there by informing them of the reality that the gospels Jesus never existed then I can save them a world of hurt later when their belief in Jesus crashes and burns, as it is happening for millions of former Christians every year. That's all it's about. I have delved deeper into the truth of Christianity father than you ever dared to go so I know what I am talking about. Sadly, committed Christians like yourself will stay in the dark and frankly, that's fine if that's what you need to get to safe harbor at the end of the day. If Jesus is a person's life raft in the stormy sea we call life then I am all for them keeping with their belief in him--as long as they have heard both sides of the story and then make an informed decision.
Mystic, let me lay it out for you in black and white because after 2000+ posts it still seems to go over your head:
You and I are like two kids on opposite sides of the globe trying to talk to each other with two tin cans and a string. I don't believe for a second you ever had a genuine encounter with Jesus because I have proven in the other thread--and so have dozens of reputable scholars with PhD's--that Jesus of the gospels never existed. What you had I am convinced is a dream or hallucination based on your perceptions of what Jesus looked like and what he might have said. I'll bet my last dollar this Jesus looked to you exactly like the famous photos of Jesus we see everywhere.
So I am not hurting anyone by pulling the veil off the mistaken notion that Jesus is the savior of mankind. There's no truth to that any more than there is truth to the idea that Krishna is the savior of mankind. I am trying to expose the dirty dealings and deceptions the church has pulled for centuries on unsuspecting people, tricking them into joining Christianity based on false promises. If I can save people from falling for all the nonsense Christianity throws out there by informing them of the reality that the gospels Jesus never existed then I can save them a world of hurt later when their belief in Jesus crashes and burns, as it is happening for millions of former Christians every year. That's all it's about. I have delved deeper into the truth of Christianity father than you ever dared to go so I know what I am talking about. Sadly, committed Christians like yourself will stay in the dark and frankly, that's fine if that's what you need to get to safe harbor at the end of the day. If Jesus is a person's life raft in the stormy sea we call life then I am all for them keeping with their belief in him--as long as they have heard both sides of the story and then make an informed decision.
What goes over your head is the fact that both of the bold are true as are the other ones for each era in which they were propounded. They are all attempts to understand inspirations about who God is and what He wants from us using the particular cultural, and spiritual knowledge and conception of God in each era.
The Savior meme is what I refer to as the avatar spiritual template around which the speculations and attempts to understand the inspirations from God were built. Each version was a kind of preparation of the concept to prepare us cognitively for the real version which I consider to be the Christ narrative. The Jesus version is the most sophisticated, is consistent with science, and is closest to the truth when properly understood, IMO.
You don't believe God inspired anything, so none of it makes any sense to you particularly the primitive and barbaric interpretations in the Christian dogma! My encounter made it clear to me that God's consciousness not only exists but is and has always been there to influence our thoughts. You misunderstand my encounter. I did not meet a physical Jesus and there was no particular physical appearance. I encountered an overarching and all-encompassing consciousness (Mind) that was not mine! I recognized it in the descriptions of the "mind of Christ" in the Bible! That is too big a coincidence since I had no belief in Jesus whatsoever as an atheist!
What goes over your head is the fact that both of the bold are true as are the other ones for each era in which they were propounded. They are all attempts to understand inspirations about who God is and what He wants from us using the particular cultural, and spiritual knowledge and conception of God in each era.
The Savior meme is what I refer to as the avatar spiritual template around which the speculations and attempts to understand the inspirations from God were built. Each version was a kind of preparation of the concept to prepare us cognitively for the real version which I consider to be the Christ narrative. The Jesus version is the most sophisticated, is consistent with science, and is closest to the truth when properly understood, IMO.
You don't believe God inspired anything, so none of it makes any sense to you particularly the primitive and barbaric interpretations in the Christian dogma! My encounter made it clear to me that God's consciousness not only exists but is and has always been there to influence our thoughts. You misunderstand my encounter. I did not meet a physical Jesus and there was no particular physical appearance. I encountered an overarching and all-encompassing consciousness (Mind) that was not mine! I recognized it in the descriptions of the "mind of Christ" in the Bible! That is too big a coincidence since I had no belief in Jesus whatsoever as an atheist!
Jesus knows where I live. He's welcome to knock on my door and sit down and have a conversation with me anytime he wants--just like he was gracious enough to do for you. I don't recall you ever telling me why he did it for you out of all the billions of Christians he didn't do it for. Can you tell us again? Why you?
So you think the earlier gods like Krishna were a warming up act for the ultimate savior god, Jesus? One question: how am I supposed to believe in Jesus when all the physical evidence screams he never existed?
Mystic, you believe you had this fantabulous encounter with Jesus and it opened up all sorts of understandings to you that the rest of us don't have. But if Jesus doesn't give the rest of us poor schmucks the same experience you had how in God's name are we supposed to understand a thing of what you are trying to explain to us about this "The Jesus I encountered is the more advanced God-consciousness that reveals all truths to us through the mind of Christ" stuff?
What's interesting thrill, is that NO ONE has appealed to your call to agree that I'm "off the rails" with my thinking.
Maybe Harry will later on. But even if he does, he's only ONE person in this internet "stuff".
Where's all your followers, thrill?
Where's ALL the people, you hope to gather, into your own 'flock'?
Applying modern standards to ANY claim is legitimate no matter when the claim was made.
That people were more ignorant or credulous about some things two millennia ago does not mean we should suffer with the same handicaps in some misguided notion of "fairness".
In saying this, I am not "following" Thrill. His remarks stand or fall on their own merits. In this particular case, he's correct that your statement that modern evidentiary standards should not apply to something merely because it's ancient, is misbegotten. I don't know if I'd call it "off the rails", if that's supposed to imply a complete flight of fancy. That's excessive, I think.
Thrill or Harry or myself (or you) aren't made more right by having (un)popular views (or ancient, or modern views). None of those things are a valid input to evaluating the things we say. Critical thinking is not a(n) (un)popularity contest, nor is it "the oldest idea wins".
What's interesting thrill, is that NO ONE has appealed to your call to agree that I'm "off the rails" with my thinking.
Maybe Harry will later on. But even if he does, he's only ONE person in this internet "stuff".
Where's all your followers, thrill?
Where's ALL the people, you hope to gather, into your own 'flock'?
Awww Mink, you really are missing the boat on all this. I have to copy and paste because I'm just so weary of saying it over and over:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
So I am not hurting anyone by pulling the veil off the mistaken notion that Jesus is the savior of mankind. There's no truth to that any more than there is truth to the idea that Krishna is the savior of mankind. I am trying to expose the dirty dealings and deceptions the church has pulled for centuries on unsuspecting people, tricking them into joining Christianity based on false promises. If I can save people from falling for all the nonsense Christianity throws out there by informing them of the reality that the gospels Jesus never existed then I can save them a world of hurt later when their belief in Jesus crashes and burns, as it is happening for millions of former Christians every year. That's all it's about. I have delved deeper into the truth of Christianity father than you ever dared to go so I know what I am talking about. Sadly, committed Christians like yourself will stay in the dark and frankly, that's fine if that's what you need to get to safe harbor at the end of the day. If Jesus is a person's life raft in the stormy sea we call life then I am all for them keeping with their belief in him--as long as they have heard both sides of the story and then make an informed decision.
Ohhhh, here we go!
Mystic, when Biblical scholars evaluate the sources and legitimacy of ancient manuscripts do you actually think they are using tools and techniques from 2000 years ago?????? 2000 years ago the idea of Biblical scholarship or ANY scholarship on the study of ancient manuscripts didn't even exist and even if it did how would we know what they were in 2022 CE???????
Sometimes I truly wonder about you, Mystic. You're supposed to be some kind of furshlugginer professor emeritus but it was probably in wood shop.
I have not characterized you, your intellect, nor your knowledge, or any other ad hominem, Thrill. Let's try to avoid such rudeness. You are way too invested in your campaign to denigrate the Christian religion to punish them for what they did to your prior self, IMO. You are being unreasonable and too biased to think objectively about what expectations are reasonable about what the communication environments in earlier eras were actually like. You can always find biased scholars to agree with virtually any position in history. I am gl;ad you escaped the barbaric nonsense of the dominant Christian dogma, but you have no objectivity whatsoever about any alternative interpretations or understanding.
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