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Along these lines, I read a book in early 2013, When Bad Things Happen to Good People by Harold S. Kushner. Rabbi Kushner seeks the answer to the ubiquitous question of why "bad things happen to good people". Among those questions addressed was the Holocaust. His "answer" was that G-d is a friend and a support, but since Biblical times has not made a practice in intervening in human affairs. The was an effort to explain how G-d could allow such things to happen as the Holocaust, floods, pandemics etc. I have come to agree with most of the book's precepts, that G-d's role is limited to setting up the world, giving humans more powers than animals or plants, and then letting go. G-d does not cause or prevent cancer or other horrible deaths.Otherwise how could G-d be a decent force and worthy of praise? Is there an answer to that question?
Bias alert: The author married my natural parents in February 1955 as a substitute, when their original Rabbi wasn't available. But on an intellectual level I buy his arguments.
As I recall, Kushner threw god's omnipotence under the bus. You have to dispense with omnipotence, omniscience or omnibenevolence to construct a theodicy, and omnipotence seems the least objectionable. God cares, but cannot intervene. Or, god isn't aware of the problem. Or, god doesn't care at all. Which will it be?
The thing is, Kushner's non-interventionist god, or an indifferent, god, or a non-existent god all behave exactly the same. How would you ever tell them apart? I have no idea.
Well, your ”God” and Jesus easily let you leave the Christianity? You're even very lucky.
I was in the Christian education department of the Christian university and graduated as the top student.
I am reading the Bible in Hebrew and Greek many years to seek the truth.
Anyway, long to short, I concluded Jesus IS the Satan. So he wants to play us for toys. It does make sense why he does not care about you.
I may regret asking, but ... what do you mean by "the" Satan? As opposed to just saying he's Satan? And on what do you base this insight of yours?
If I still believed in gods and devils, I would have to conclude that the Christian god is either a liar or likes to pull the legs off us bugs. I think the far more economical explanation is that gods don't exist to begin with. Life is not directed or personal -- positively or negatively. It just IS.
If you had been born in a country with a different majority religion, you might have spent years mastering, say, Pali, so that you could figure out what the real deal was about Buddah. Are you sure you're even barking up the right tree?
I may regret asking, but ... what do you mean by "the" Satan? As opposed to just saying he's Satan? And on what do you base this insight of yours?
If I still believed in gods and devils, I would have to conclude that the Christian god is either a liar or likes to pull the legs off us bugs. I think the far more economical explanation is that gods don't exist to begin with. Life is not directed or personal -- positively or negatively. It just IS.
If you had been born in a country with a different majority religion, you might have spent years mastering, say, Pali, so that you could figure out what the real deal was about Buddah. Are you sure you're even barking up the right tree?
I may regret asking, but ... what do you mean by "the" Satan? As opposed to just saying he's Satan? And on what do you base this insight of yours?
You're actually smarter and I didn't expect someone would point it out.
Yes, I wrote "the Satan" on purpose. I explain the reasons below ;
1, Satan whom people imagine in Christianity is "Ha Satan" in Hebrew (In Septuagint, it's Diabolos). In modern Hebrew, the literal translation is "The Satan", although 'Ha' in biblical Hebrew shouldn't be treated the article adequate to "The" in English.
2, In the Old Testament, 'Satan' without the prefix 'Ha' is used only in the case that refers to the God's agent (In Septuagint, it's 'satan') who takes a role against sinful people.
3, Another reason to use "the Satan" is to distinguish it with Christian imaged Satan. 'Ha Satan' in Job is the wanderer in the Earth who apparently knows the place of congregation of Lord and sons of God. Lord asked him "Where are you from?" It signifies Lord actually didn't know 'Ha Satan'. If you believe Lord created everything, this could sound strange. I myself perceived that 'Ha Satan' is the secondary born creature who had got birth somehow without God's creation.
The world view of Christian Satan is the entire ruler of Worldly sinful world as the unique (it means only One) absolute entity. However, I treat "the Satan" in this case as "one" of Evil forces (or one shape).
4, The man of Lawlessness in 2 Thessalonians 2 is thought to be Jesus for me. The man of Lawlessness is the figure set under Satan's work (2 Thessalonians 2:9). But it is still unclear whether The man of Lawlessness himself is Satan or not. So I put "the" in this topic. It might be a shadow of Satan.
... I myself like Judaism. However, I personally do not accept the concept of God as a tool to enslave human beings.
Last edited by nicholay2019; 12-14-2022 at 11:24 PM..
Reason: I want to add more correct terms.
That's what I thought of when I read the OP's story. It appears his faith rested in his own understanding, not in God. As in proverbs, "Trust in the Lord, and lean not on your own understanding". That isn't often taught in church anymore.
When my husband passed away suddenly and unexpectedly a few years ago on Christmas Eve morning, I would have ditched the faith believing God to be a cruel tyrant if I did not understand the doctrines of the Christian faith as I do. Thank God my faith rests in Jesus and nothing else (even if there's "no proof" for His existence. The Devil is the ruler of this world.
With all due respect, even contemplating the fact that God might be a "cruel tyrant" due to the death of a spouse is another good reason for not believing in God.
That's my story. Any other ex-Christians have a story to tell?
Spent around the first 40 plus years of my life as a Catholic--as I am now 65. Something started turning in my 40's. Having a child go through multiple surgeries, I realized that life just is. It is a free fall. All the prayers in the World can't change the outcome. Free will. I remember my Jewish obstetrician telling me at my first postpartum visit, "God only gives special children to special people". I looked at him and said sternly, "I don't think God would punish me for being a good person". Every time my son had surgery people would say, "I will pray for him, God will take care of him". I hated hearing that stuff. What if things didn't work out. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't fair that people would give credit to God if things worked out well, it things didn't--oh well not his fault. I got tired of people saying, "God answered my prayers, my Mother has recovered". What about the children being abused, what about the sick children in hospitals? God is not looking out for them? Life is just a free fall, we can all just hope for the best outcome.
I slowly became a non believer. My husband and I never talk about it. He stills believes.
Although my deep roots still have me praying to St Anthony when I can't find something!
I came to the conclusion that it wasn't fair that people would give credit to God if things worked out well, it things didn't--oh well not his fault.
Yes that is a very blatant double standard. All the benefits of the role, yet none of the responsibility. Add in all the lavish and explicit promises in the Bible to the righteous, and the equally negative ones for the unrighteous -- and then you have the maddening spectacle of other Christians suspecting you of covert sin or insufficient piety as well, when your suffering becomes inconveniently chronic for any length of time.
You're actually smarter and I didn't expect someone would point it out.
Yes, I wrote "the Satan" on purpose. I explain the reasons below ;
1, Satan whom people imagine in Christianity is "Ha Satan" in Hebrew (In Septuagint, it's Diabolos). In modern Hebrew, the literal translation is "The Satan", although 'Ha' in biblical Hebrew shouldn't be treated the article adequate to "The" in English.
2, In the Old Testament, 'Satan' without the prefix 'Ha' is used only in the case that refers to the God's agent (In Septuagint, it's 'satan') who takes a role against sinful people.
3, Another reason to use "the Satan" is to distinguish it with Christian imaged Satan. 'Ha Satan' in Job is the wanderer in the Earth who apparently knows the place of congregation of Lord and sons of God. Lord asked him "Where are you from?" It signifies Lord actually didn't know 'Ha Satan'. If you believe Lord created everything, this could sound strange. I myself perceived that 'Ha Satan' is the secondary born creature who had got birth somehow without God's creation.
The world view of Christian Satan is the entire ruler of Worldly sinful world as the unique (it means only One) absolute entity. However, I treat "the Satan" in this case as "one" of Evil forces (or one shape).
4, The man of Lawlessness in 2 Thessalonians 2 is thought to be Jesus for me. The man of Lawlessness is the figure set under Satan's work (2 Thessalonians 2:9). But it is still unclear whether The man of Lawlessness himself is Satan or not. So I put "the" in this topic. It might be a shadow of Satan.
... I myself like Judaism. However, I personally do not accept the concept of God as a tool to enslave human beings.
I don't know how anyone in this modern day and age can believe in a guy who dresses in a red asbestos suit and has horns and a pitchfork. It's all so comical.
Well, your ”God” and Jesus easily let you leave the Christianity? You're even very lucky.
I was in the Christian education department of the Christian university and graduated as the top student.
I am reading the Bible in Hebrew and Greek many years to seek the truth.
Anyway, long to short, I concluded Jesus IS the Satan. So he wants to play us for toys. It does make sense why he does not care about you.
Makes no sense to me at all, sorry.
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Jesus is actually the Satan
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