Contemplating my decision to leave Christianity (church, quote, God, Christians)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As Miss H has advised you, we have different mindsets. It is about existence. Dictionary definitions are limited.
What Brhaman is is existence and is unlimited. Infinite. There is no question of truth and untruth. It is about knowledge of the nature of self. In the entire discussion above i dont remember truth being mentioned.
And yet, how many times in the past have you resorted to dictionary definitions?
My earlier post was poorly worded. I reject the "Transcendence-ONLY" concept of our Reality. The bold is the exact opposite, IMO. Time is what exists and establishes our Reality. As Augustine observed, God creates our Reality with Time, not in time. It is the spiritual time involved in establishing our derivative conscious awareness within our macro-level manifestation that makes our experienced and measured time (which is an artifact, NOT the actual spiritual Time) create the perception of space and the confusion about time dilation.
"Augustine places God on top of pyramid of existence. He is the one that is infinite and eternal and there is no change and motion in nature of God. God is immutable in His essence and His attributes and so subject to no mutation. He is eternal and time-independent. "
"St. Augustine’s reflections on time started with the fact that time is a measure of change. As such, it presupposes the existence of things that change—which, of course, must be created things. Consequently, he said, “there can be no time without creation.” Time is thus an aspect of the created world and is itself a creation of God
God created time. but is not subject to time. because god existed before time was created.
just like God created forms, but has no form. because god existed before forms were created.
and just like God created space, but does not exist in space. because god existed before space was created.
"This led St. Augustine to a most remarkable insight, which is that it is meaningless to speak about “times before creation.” For if time is passing, then something created is already in existence, namely changing things and time itself, meaning that all times must be times after creation. There was no time before heaven and earth."
and this: "God himself is beyond space and time” "St Augustine argued that earthly time (which is part of God’s creation) must be very different to the nature of God’s existence. " "God’s eternity, in which “nothing is transient, but the whole is present” In eternity, there is no such thing as transition from past to present to future. Eternity is simply one whole present moment."
So actually what Augustine says supports that time is NOT an aspect of God. but is ONLY an aspect of physical creation. "Since the divine eternity is a never-ending present, it exists wholly separate from time." GOD EXISTS WHOLLY SEPARATE FROM TIME.
" God is whole, immutable and sacred. God is perpetually the same, subject to no change in His being, and it has been always and will always be, an infinitive and immortal self-existence. Conversely, all creations are trapped in temporality."
"God is immutable [unchanging] in his essence and He is eternal."
immutable = unchanging over time or unable to be changed Augustine addresses God, "You (God) are constant and unchangeable."
"Augustine places God on top of pyramid of existence. He is the one that is infinite and eternal and there is no change and motion in nature of God. God is immutable in His essence and His attributes and so subject to no mutation. He is eternal and time-independent. "
"St. Augustine’s reflections on time started with the fact that time is a measure of change. As such, it presupposes the existence of things that change—which, of course, must be created things. Consequently, he said, “there can be no time without creation.” Time is thus an aspect of the created world and is itself a creation of God
God created time. but is not subject to time. because god existed before time was created.
just like God created forms, but has no form. because god existed before forms were created.
and just like God created space, but does not exist in space. because god existed before space was created.
"This led St. Augustine to a most remarkable insight, which is that it is meaningless to speak about “times before creation.” For if time is passing, then something created is already in existence, namely changing things and time itself, meaning that all times must be times after creation. There was no time before heaven and earth."
and this: "God himself is beyond space and time” "St Augustine argued that earthly time (which is part of God’s creation) must be very different to the nature of God’s existence. " "God’s eternity, in which “nothing is transient, but the whole is present” In eternity, there is no such thing as transition from past to present to future. Eternity is simply one whole present moment."
So actually what Augustine says supports that time is NOT an aspect of God. but is ONLY an aspect of physical creation. "Since the divine eternity is a never-ending present, it exists wholly separate from time." GOD EXISTS WHOLLY SEPARATE FROM TIME.
When I was in my 20s I found a lot of moral dilemmas that were confusing to me. I started asking myself "What would Superman do in this situation" and it would help me.
A few years later the popular saying "What would Jesus do" came out and I thought that was really amusing because I kind of thought of it first.
I do not believe Superman is real, and yet I totally understand his character and what he would do in nearly any situation. That has helped me.
I have read all about Jesus and focused heavily on what he said in Matthew and I life my life pretty close to those ideas.
HOWEVER...I do not believe Jesus was real and hate mideast jewish religions like Christianity and Islam because they are manmade evil ideas.
That does not stop me from admiring the ideal from the Sermon on the Mount.
I do not have to have psychotic beliefs in ideas to see the good in them.
I hear you, and I like how you attempt to address those moral dilemmas. The comparison of an obvious fictional character to Jesus is interesting as well. There is enough evidence to suggest Jesus was a real person, but like you, I don't believe in the Jesus or all that about him as written in the Bible. Given what we now know, it's hard not to realize much about the Bible is fiction. The story of Adam and Eve and Jesus included.
None of which keeps anyone from using some form of "moral compass" that helps us with those moral dilemmas. Those of us who want to be good human beings anyway. I'm not sure judging what is right or wrong is all that hard quite frankly. It's the doing right instead of wrong that tends to be more the challenge for so many of us...
As Miss H has advised you, we have different mindsets. It is about existence. Dictionary definitions are limited.
What Brhaman is is existence and is unlimited. Infinite. There is no question of truth and untruth. It is about knowledge of the nature of self. In the entire discussion above i dont remember truth being mentioned.
Again you seem to misunderstand me...
Of course we have different mindsets. Conditioning. Preconditioning, as already discussed at some length right?
Of course dictionary definitions are limited, but they are useful in the ways I've suggested as well. Are they not?
If we all throw out words, terms and vocabulary that don't have shared meaning, we might as well be talking different languages then. Right? We know best what someone else is explaining if we know what the words they are using mean. Don't we? That's when and how a dictionary can be helpful. Should be anyway.
If not that, at least the words people use provides us a starting point from which to question or prod for better understanding. A far better starting point than say for example if I were to start by telling you that deconaleesa mordalenta duest comalmetra tanga.
I mean right?
Now then, is it true or a truth that it "is about knowledge of the nature of self?"
If this isn't a truth or true, then it's a claim. Or what far as you are concerned?
Now too these recent comments that Tzap has posted. Are they truths or something else?
Of course we have different mindsets. Conditioning. Preconditioning, as already discussed at some length right?
Of course dictionary definitions are limited, but they are useful in the ways I've suggested as well. Are they not?
If we all throw out words, terms and vocabulary that don't have shared meaning, we might as well be talking different languages then. Right? We know best what someone else is explaining if we know what the words they are using mean. Don't we? That's when and how a dictionary can be helpful. Should be anyway.
If not that, at least the words people use provides us a starting point from which to question or prod for better understanding. A far better starting point than say for example if I were to start by telling you that deconaleesa mordalenta duest comalmetra tanga.
I mean right?
Now then, is it true or a truth that it "is about knowledge of the nature of self?"
If this isn't a truth or true, then it's a claim. Or what far as you are concerned?
Now too these recent comments that Tzap has posted. Are they truths or something else?
Seems we've had these problems since that pesky tower of bable episode.
I hear you, and I like how you attempt to address those moral dilemmas. The comparison of an obvious fictional character to Jesus is interesting as well. There is enough evidence to suggest Jesus was a real person, but like you, I don't believe in the Jesus or all that about him as written in the Bible. Given what we now know, it's hard not to realize much about the Bible is fiction. The story of Adam and Eve and Jesus included.
None of which keeps anyone from using some form of "moral compass" that helps us with those moral dilemmas. Those of us who want to be good human beings anyway. I'm not sure judging what is right or wrong is all that hard quite frankly. It's the doing right instead of wrong that tends to be more the challenge for so many of us...
I agree. There is much wisdom within christianity...even without the woo and without the non-provable history. A moral compass is good, as long as one actually thinks about what that compass is saying.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
