Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (experiences, atheist, quote)
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I believe it was Isaak Asimov,
the sci-fi writer, that brought up God being like a diamond in the sky with many facets.
When we look at this big diamond we may be at a bottom right facet...another person a left middle facet...
sooo many mirror-like, shiny facets!
What is reflected to us depends on us.
We may be a Muslim, a Christian or we may believe in a Blue boy with a flute.
I have not experienced what ocean's11 here has - nor exactly what Mystic has...nor they what I have.
How fascinating for the Cosmic Shape-Shifter to appear as we like...or are able to absorb.
Comfort?
Well, my friend..if and when God comes to you up-close and personal - then tell me if you
saw any judgment or punishment in Him. We'll talk seriously then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
The bolded that I said earlier, I thought, was clear. We can talk when the above happens.
It would be my pleasure.
"when God comes to you... We'll talk seriously then"
You'll only discuss this with someone else who God as already "come to"?? Are Mystic and Ocean777 the only people you're willing to discuss it with?
Seems like a blatant dodge of two simple yes/no questions...
Quote:
I assume you've also had an experience of the spiritual realm. Q1. Was yours during intense meditation as well?
There are plenty of NDE accounts of the spiritual realm that include feelings of indescribable happiness, peace acceptance, etc. Q2. Do you believe God was the source of those feelings in all those NDEs?
If you're not comfortable answering those two yes/no questions, just be honest about that. I didn't involve you in my discussion with Mystic. You engaged with me. I'm not sure why you'd do that if you're not comfortable talking about the topic.
Putting myself in their shoes, I can understand how if God were to pay me a visit right now in this room where I sit by myself, I would be wanting to let others know about the visit. I'd have no evidence to share, however, because it seems God is pretty particular about leaving no evidence. What to do about that? No easy answers there, but next time God paid a visit I'd ask if he couldn't leave me just any kind of keep sake. Doesn't need to be gold plates or anything fancy like that. Just anything, like maybe just his autograph.
Or at least explain why not...
If god 'speaks' to you, it is taking place in your mind (is it not) which is exactly why proof is an impossibility (and is why the expectation of proof in order for someone to express their opinion or 'feelings' is illogical).
It is not because 'god is pretty particular about leaving no evidence'; but because proof (or an autograph) representative of your thoughts, i.e. what you perceive as god, is impossible.
"when God comes to you... We'll talk seriously then" You'll only discuss this with someone elsewho God as already "come to"??
Are Mystic and Ocean777 the only people you're willing to discuss it with?
No. I had happened to find you polite - so if you had the experience it
would be a pleasure to talk to you about it.
Those questions you ask will lead to more and more whether I say yes or no to either one.
You're a curious person, nothing wrong with that.
I've talked about my experiences (and pretty freely) before many times when
the Spirit moved me to, but, online,
I think I may be done doing that. You should have caught me years ago...I was
way more talkative.
This sounds like Mystic's 'radio- receiver brain gets garbled messages' argument. Which is of course explaining away the fact that the Mental Messages that are claimed to come from one source come through in different ways.
The excuse is that the faulty brains we have evolved (hardly 'designed' unless through a less than perfect evolutionary method (the evolution is real -but God uses it apologetic) garble the messages into...would you believe...results shaped by our culture and beliefs, unless they are hustled into orthodoxy by an Authority.
Obviously the apologetic is that it is the brain, shaped by culture that is shaping these messages and obviously the rationalist claim is that they are products of the brain and shaped by custom and culture.
So, putting aside all the stuff about Krauss or Dawkins apparently appealing to Something More than just the human mind as producing human consciousness and mind, and the usual appeals to the unknowns, it comes down to either hypothesis seems to fit the facts
I'll just say that logic would say that the mind producing these culture -shaped mental images is the default as we know the mind exists. It is for those arguing for an outside source to substantiate that hypothesis, and I'm sure that Krauss and Dawkins are well aware of that.
As usual, Occam's razor comes into play and for those who would dismiss the Principle of parsimony, the materialist default and the burden of proof, I'd say they can do that, but can never again honestly use the word 'Logic' in making their arguments.
I will assume you did not intend to say "the human mind produces human consciousness and mind" and consider you meant to say the human brain does so. Despite the fact that you seem not to realize that a transceiver is BOTH a producer AND a receiver, your acknowledgment that both hypotheses fit the facts is some progress.
The woo-like fact that creates much of our confusion resides in the fact that the brain produces and records our consciousness (mind) but the EM-like consciousness then resides within the consciousness field of God. The awareness that we experience is not consciousness as it is produced. We experience a "quantum time" delayed playback of it using the recordings in the brain. The actual consciousness that is produced retains its connection and influences the playback and other aspects as the unconscious.
I wouldn't expect anyone to. But, it seems to me that some atheists can't abide other people sharing their experiences on a religious and spirituality forum without constantly interjecting their belief that sharing those experiences has no value to them.
That's because they don't, since they are not universal.
And because they're highly subjective, which means they exist for you and you alone and no one else.
Strange how your god is totally incapable of discerning between subjectivity and objectivity.
Seems like a blatant dodge of two simple yes/no questions...
So says The Flouncer Extraordinaire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
I didn't say you encountered the God of the bible, just an experience of the spiritual realm.
Great, you're now the self-appointed Arbiter of the Faith & Keeper of the Terrible Secrets who determines who has encountered god and who has not.
Soooo religious-like and sooo uninspiring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
I have some atheist telling me that the biosphere looking like its better classified as alive than not alive is a god thing.
so are you telling me that my claim is based on faith?
Yes, and a Logical Fallacy called Anthropomorphism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
But remember, superlatives hardly ever work. Referring to ''all''...most, yes.
No, I meant "all."
You have never seen god and you can't claim that you have without contradicting the biblical texts.
Whatever you experience is purely subjective and largely fantastical or hallucinatory and not within the realm of objectivity.
Perhaps if you explain to your god the difference between subjectivity and objectivity your god would understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
How exactly do you know this to be so????
Did you happen to watch Dateline NBC last night?
You have 2 religious nutters from the LSD Church who murdered their children, murdered their spouses, then married each other, and murdered other people because they thought they were zombies.
No kidding.
Is that objectively true? You know, that they were zombies? I mean their god-thing told them those people were zombies and had to be killed off and it doesn't matter because everyone gets resurrected in the end, but apparently not as zombies.
That's blind faith.
On what basis would you claim their beliefs are more or less rational than that of another's?
What if they're right and everyone else is wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg
Your Heavenly Father will never let you down, amazon on the other hand....
Your god lets down the blind, deaf, mentally retarded, amputees, the comatose, the vegetated and Billions of others on a daily basis.
Your god lets down the blind, deaf, mentally retarded, amputees, the comatose, the vegetated and Billions of others on a daily basis.
I'm sure it's great fun for your god.
How do you know for certain that God has "let them down"?
There are plenty of blind, deaf, mentally retarded, amputees, comatose, vegetated and homeless people, even victims of crimes, who don't believe that "God let them down".
If *YOU* had any of those experiences, *YOU* may think that God let *YOU* down.
But you don't get to speak for ALL others in the same circumstances.
Would it surprise you to know that some of those "less fortunate" people do NOT see themselves as "less fortunate", but who actually THANK GOD for their disability?
How do you know for certain that God has "let them down"?
There are plenty of blind, deaf, mentally retarded, amputees, comatose, vegetated and homeless people, even victims of crimes, who don't believe that "God let them down".
If *YOU* had any of those experiences, *YOU* may think that God let *YOU* down.
But you don't get to speak for ALL others in the same circumstances.
Would it surprise you to know that some of those "less fortunate" people do NOT see themselves as "less fortunate", but who actually THANK GOD for their disability?
I can't say that's not true, but as an educator I worked with many handicapped children. In one school we had a wing devoted to the physically handicapped. In all my other schools we served special ed kids in fairly large numbers (where I was principal, it was the largest program staff in the building). Never once did I ever hear a handicapped person or their parent express thanks for the disability.
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