Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (Mormon, church, atheist)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No, it doesn't, Arach. I did NOT perceive God by my mind first. I was truly an atheist with zero expectations or interest in any God.
I meant, you had no perception of it. Then you had your experience. That experience was when you first perceived it. Then you believed it. Although your god is a little different. Yours is really the universe, so really all I can say is "yes, that description of god is valid".
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Mink, I say to you with an oil tanker's worth of compassion which Jesus, being a myth, could never offer you: you are so out of touch with reality you don't know if you're coming or going.
SERIOUSLY!
You are so immersed in this dream world of Christian woo that you cannot see the forest for the trees. I did compliment you elsewhere that you are the most adept apologist at making excuses for God that I have ever encountered here on CD. Your virtuosity takes my breath away, SERIOUSLY! Every objection a skeptic raises about God's absence in the world you are johnny-on-the-spot with defenses of God that are so outrageously stupefying I am often left agape. My jaw shatters when it hits the ground.
When I say God doesn't help the defenseless, you don't proffer anything reasonably intelligent to counter my claim. You don't offer examples to show how God DOES help the defenseless. All you say is, "Why don't you go out and help defenseless people if you're so concerned about them??????
Oh my Gawwwwwwwwd....! Why in the hell should I, being 70 and not in great health, go out and do God's job? Why don't you--seeing as how you preach Jesus wants Christians to out into the world and feed the hungry and clothe the naked. YOU fly to Tanzania and minister to the poor. Unless you don't really care about them, that is. In that case I'd love to see you when you stand in front of the judgement throne of Jesus and he throws Matthew 25:31-46 at you. Ha! Try to duck that one! Then haul out your asbestos suit in case he prints you a one-way ticket to hell.
Pull out a pin, pop that bubble you live in and see the world as it really is. Here's my evidence God doesn't help anybody, least of all starving children. Where's your evidence He does??????
And asked her a direct question which reversed the exact same question she asked me: "where is your evidence God does [physically helps the poor, the homeless, the disenfranchised, the sick, the hungry, etc.] and I never got a "boo" from her. She probably put me me on ignore simply because my question was too tough for her to answer. Not surprising. I never knew Mink to be one to run from a question, having dubbed her the greatest "BS'ing for God" expert I have ever come across in all my years on this board.
Now jones comes along with essentially just an inspirational video demonstrating how a person with severe handicaps can overcome adversity and find meaning in life, which is something millions of atheists do every day. I don't see how God figures into this gentleman's unfortune in the least. If anything it clearly demonstrates God allows evil to grind us into the ground but yet a rare few are able to rise, on their own I might add, and lead "whole" lives.
A testament to the goodness of man, NOT an evil God.
I have neither put you on 'ignore', nor do I find your questions to be "too tough" to answer. It's not as if you're asking extraordinarily insightful questions that haven't already been asked by others before you. Other objectors have been asking the same questions for the past 2000+ years. Plus, the objections have already been answered by some of the most extraordinary minds in history.
However, I find it hard to weed through--and stomach--all of the rhetoric, name-calling, insults, putdowns, lashing out, ridicule, sarcasm, emotional angry outbursts and overall mockery andcontempt you seem to have for anyone whose opinions and experiences differ from your own. When you resort to those 'tactics', you lose my interest in having any kind of discussion with you. Your approach is too "Dawkin-ish" as in Dawkins seeks to ridicule and mock Christians so badly that "they would be embarrassed to believe what they believe". Uh-huh :rolleye
The "evidence" you provided by way of a short video isn't evidence of God "not helping". In fact, it's just the opposite. I watched the whole thing and I saw children who were smiling, eating and going to school, despite the horrible conditions they're living in. I loved it when Thida said, "Jesus Christ".
God helps others through others, thrill. He's the inspiration, quite often, like it or not.
Oh...by the way...I don't need to fly to Tanzania to help the poor. I can do that where I live. Not only have I given money to the poor directly, I also contribute to the poor through the church. Yes, I have given clothes to those who need them. Yes, I have visited the sick. So I obviously DO care. Plus, I live on Social Security. I don't have much savings, or a trust fund...or "millions".
Just imagine what I could do with those "millions" if I had them.
I don't mind responding to you, thrill. But couldja just please...tone it down a bit?
ahh ... gotcha ... Sometimes I wish I had it ... but then again, I may not have had so much fun.
Children are supposed to have fun. All that is required is that they also take responsibility for any harm they cause. I have to keep reminding myself that no matter how mature I think I have become I will be a mere infant Spirit when I die and am reborn as Spirit. YMMV.
I have neither put you on 'ignore', nor do I find your questions to be "too tough" to answer. It's not as if you're asking extraordinarily insightful questions that haven't already been asked by others before you. Other objectors have been asking the same questions for the past 2000+ years. Plus, the objections have already been answered by some of the most extraordinary minds in history.
However, I find it hard to weed through--and stomach--all of the rhetoric, name-calling, insults, putdowns, lashing out, ridicule, sarcasm, emotional angry outbursts and overall mockery andcontempt you seem to have for anyone whose opinions and experiences differ from your own. When you resort to those 'tactics', you lose my interest in having any kind of discussion with you. Your approach is too "Dawkin-ish" as in Dawkins seeks to ridicule and mock Christians so badly that "they would be embarrassed to believe what they believe". Uh-huh :rolleye
The "evidence" you provided by way of a short video isn't evidence of God "not helping". In fact, it's just the opposite. I watched the whole thing and I saw children who were smiling, eating and going to school, despite the horrible conditions they're living in. I loved it when Thida said, "Jesus Christ".
God helps others through others, thrill. He's the inspiration, quite often, like it or not.
Oh...by the way...I don't need to fly to Tanzania to help the poor. I can do that where I live. Not only have I given money to the poor directly, I also contribute to the poor through the church. Yes, I have given clothes to those who need them. Yes, I have visited the sick. So I obviously DO care. Plus, I live on Social Security. I don't have much savings, or a trust fund...or "millions".
Just imagine what I could do with those "millions" if I had them.
I don't mind responding to you, thrill. But couldja just please...tone it down a bit?
We are the physical ones and we are God's hands. We are given Dominion over the Earth. God is concerned with our spiritual development. We are to overcome and endure the physical trials and tribulations. This desire for a physically intervening God has caused more unnecessary angst and strife based on the unrealistic and magical expectations demanded of God. We humans created the Omin's without any basis other than religious dogma and wishful thinking. I take God as I found Him and expect nothing more than has been evidenced.
If god 'speaks' to you, it is taking place in your mind (is it not) which is exactly why proof is an impossibility (and is why the expectation of proof in order for someone to express their opinion or 'feelings' is illogical).
It is not because 'god is pretty particular about leaving no evidence'; but because proof (or an autograph) representative of your thoughts, i.e. what you perceive as god, is impossible.
Again if we put ourselves in the shoes of those who claim God speaks to them, I'm not sure we necessarily have to agree it's all in the mind. In the example or scenario I was describing in any case, if God actually appeared to me and spoke to me just like you might if you entered the room I'm in right now, sat down across the table from me, I would not be able to prove it even if it indeed did happen. So I'd ask for some evidence, a keepsake of some kind. Maybe a piece of rock, for example, unknown to man from some unknown galaxy where God had just vacationed. Something like that, or I would ask why not.
Point is that for those who God DOES visit, no evidence is left, ever, so I can understand how frustrating it must be to have those visits and not be able to do other than say so. Not my problem in any case, because I haven't had a visit from God since I was a very young lad and didn't think to ask such things then. Hasn't visited me ever since or given me another chance to ask anything!
Maybe saving me the same sort of frustration in any case...
That's because they don't, since they are not universal.
And because they're highly subjective, which means they exist for you and you alone and no one else.
Strange how your god is totally incapable of discerning between subjectivity and objectivity.
I'd be happy to teach your god the difference.
"There are essentially two realities for all human beings. One reality is as we perceive it to be, our personal reality. The second reality is all that truly exists in the universe, the same for all of us. Our universal truth."
Simple really, but amazing how often something so simple need be explained so many times in this forum...
How do you know for certain that God has "let them down"?
There are plenty of blind, deaf, mentally retarded, amputees, comatose, vegetated and homeless people, even victims of crimes, who don't believe that "God let them down".
If *YOU* had any of those experiences, *YOU* may think that God let *YOU* down.
But you don't get to speak for ALL others in the same circumstances.
Would it surprise you to know that some of those "less fortunate" people do NOT see themselves as "less fortunate", but who actually THANK GOD for their disability?
Good point. I don't think people with disabilities, for example, should be used as example of God letting them down. Vegetated homeless people maybe, comatose is not something anyone wants I don't think, but there are better examples of God letting people down I think. Victims of child abuse immediately come to mind. Victims of Catholic priest pedophiles certainly rank on that list. Parents who lose children to horrible diseases...
As I come to know about people in this forum, I find those who turn to the ignore list are never people who surprise me by doing so.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
