Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree with your post, with the exception of what I bolded. One does have the right to freedom of thought.
I have to ask - where in the government or our codex of laws or within the forum rules in specific does it say that a person has the right to not be offended by someone else's post.
Because I guarantee you that if such a rule existed, no one could post about anything. Because almost anything can be construed as offensive to someone else - no matter how innocuous it seems. Any opinion about anything becomes suspect. Someone could post about how they love winter. Me, I hate winter with a passion. I find that person's opinion offensive. I hit the report button.
Dealing with a controversial subject like religion, the freedom to express oneself is even more important. Otherwise, really, what's the point?
At best, a person can tell another, "I was offended by what you said." The other person can then decide how or if to modify their posts. From what I've seen, I doubt I'd modify mine very much if at all. Believe it or not, I can be sympathetic to someone else's feelings - but only if I directly insulted someone, even if by accident.
Insulting someone's religion - sorry, Charlie, but that's fair game. It's not my fault when a believer internalizes their religion to the point where it becomes their identity - when an attack on their religion is no different than a personal attack on themselves. There has to be a line drawn. If I can't criticize someone's religion then why should they criticize my taste in music? Or the movie I saw last night? Or my political views? Or whether I like spaghetti more than pizza? Or literally anything else?
This is why no, you do not have the right to not be offended. Otherwise, you could silence every dissenting opinion with the "I'm offended" card. Which, by the way, is precisely what believers have been attempting to do on this forum for the last couple of years.
As for the rest of your post ... all I can say with a bit of irony is: Amen.
Well, said. Also if a mod hasn't commented in red then you know you haven't crossed the line. I don't recall ever being called out by a mod for my criticisms--in the last 9 months or so anyway, but gldn by his own admission regularly has his posts deleted by mods for their inflammatory content.
Oddly enough, I've only gotten 3 reprimands in the 9.7 years I've been here. I know where the lines are and thus I've had no major run-ins with mods.
It's always believers who have decided to become self-appointed mods, complaining about how "offensive" my posts are - and it matters not a whit how I write them, be they written in a caustic, sarcastic, or humorous way ... or ... if they're written like a dry doctoral thesis or some kind of classroom paper to be graded, replete with formal language and whatnot. Doesn't matter. I didn't treat religion with the proper deference, respect, and genuflection.
Oh yeah - then they whine that my posts are too long. I forget that in these anti-intellectual times, anything longer than the directions on a pizza box are too long for some people ...
Shirina, beware. I believe Gldn is deliberately baiting us in an attempt to get this thread shut down. I still have much to say on the thread's topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Ah, okay then ... I won't go any further for now.
That is not my desire at all.
Shirina and I have exchanged views for years...I have no problem with her differing perspective.
I have never reported a post or ever even "Ignored" anyone...I actually prefer enthusiastic debates and exchanges.
I have to ask - where in the government or our codex of laws or within the forum rules in specific does it say that a person has the right to not be offended by someone else's post.
Because I guarantee you that if such a rule existed, no one could post about anything. Because almost anything can be construed as offensive to someone else - no matter how innocuous it seems. Any opinion about anything becomes suspect. Someone could post about how they love winter. Me, I hate winter with a passion. I find that person's opinion offensive. I hit the report button.
Dealing with a controversial subject like religion, the freedom to express oneself is even more important. Otherwise, really, what's the point?
At best, a person can tell another, "I was offended by what you said." The other person can then decide how or if to modify their posts. From what I've seen, I doubt I'd modify mine very much if at all. Believe it or not, I can be sympathetic to someone else's feelings - but only if I directly insulted someone, even if by accident.
Insulting someone's religion - sorry, Charlie, but that's fair game. It's not my fault when a believer internalizes their religion to the point where it becomes their identity - when an attack on their religion is no different than a personal attack on themselves. There has to be a line drawn. If I can't criticize someone's religion then why should they criticize my taste in music? Or the movie I saw last night? Or my political views? Or whether I like spaghetti more than pizza? Or literally anything else?
This is why no, you do not have the right to not be offended. Otherwise, you could silence every dissenting opinion with the "I'm offended" card. Which, by the way, is precisely what believers have been attempting to do on this forum for the last couple of years.
As for the rest of your post ... all I can say with a bit of irony is: Amen.
No, being offended is a personal thing that requires no outward action.
Seems a lot like that to me too, but ultimately it's always the same thing...
Again that two-headed God coin, and in this case a way to explain why it is that so many followers don't seem to hear anything or have their prayers answered. Of course, here too there is always a way to reconcile an explanation no matter what is happening. Really love this "rebellion" part too. As if growing up believing in God and then starting to think about why is rebellion. As if critical thinking is rebellion. I guess if we're to believe this sort of thing, then I'm quite the rebel.
The God doesn't answer prayers meme is a controversial one. There will always be people claiming their prayers are regularly answered. But the conventional wisdom is that God doesn't answer prayers and this has been borne out by study after study. You don't need studies to prove the obvious: people pray for sick loved ones and the loved ones still die. The fall-back excuse is that God's ways are mysterious or any one or more of hundreds of reasons I have enumerated in past posts, about how apologists say certain conditions haven't been met by praying people before God can hear their prayers. If one just looks at the obvious--that whatever power is running this universe simply doesn't care about prayers being offered to it or is completely oblivious to them then it all begins to make perfect sense. The issue of whether this higher power has a duty to care in the case of prayer becomes secondary to the larger issue of whether or not this higher power has a duty of at least concern for all the suffering going on in the world.
Gldn, I'm disappointed in you. I was hoping you would not go the way of so many believers here and try and tell we atheists to essentially "sit down and shut up." Alas, you've decided to drink the Kool-Aid along with several other believers who somehow got too big for their britches and think they have some special right to dictate to we atheists what we can and can't say.
So let's be really clear here. You have a sub-forum for every single major belief system. No doubt the mods would add any sub-forum for any other religion someone may wish to discuss. On the same vein, we atheists have the Atheists & Agnostics forum. In THOSE forums is where you can politely ask questions and be respectful to someone's faith. Not that believers have been particularly respectful to we atheists in our sub-forum, but whatever.
THIS forum ... the one we are currently talking within ... THIS forum is fair game.
What you're doing is placing a carte blanche ban on anything negative ... AT ALL ... being spoken about religion here on this forum. Any post that a believer even perceives as being offensive should be deleted forthwith and perhaps the author suffering a penalty as well. Considering the number of believers who sees anything negative spoken of about religion as a personal attack - yeah - why would any atheist want to stay here?
So we can sit in the dark corners of this forum while we watch the believers fall upon each other like wolves as each religion and each denomination begins to disagree with each other? Then what? Do you make even more rules segregating between who can be offensive and who cannot?
Because you have no idea how much about religion I find offensive. You would take away my voice, my right to express MY outrage at those things. Instead, I would have to sit here and read post after post of believers condemning people to hell, spreading misinformation about atheists, telling we atheists what we think and what we believe, getting into fun little back-n-forths with each other about how silly we atheists are for not believing, and ... that's just the surface of it.
Never mind the stuff I find REALLY offensive - but can i say any of it? No. Because I'm not allowed. I have to be respectful of YOUR beliefs whilst you do not have to show the same consideration for MINE.
Because in your world, your feelings are more important than mine. I guess we atheists aren't deserving of being treated with respect. Because trust me I've dealt with a whole lot of disrespect on this forum. Lots. Most of the time I just let it go so I don't sidetrack my argument. I only wish believers could have the same thickness of skin. The big reason why I don't post here much anymore is because of the attitude you just displayed.
In fact, I find this whole attitude displayed by an increasing number of believers here to be HIGHLY offensive. Because what it does is turn atheists and other non-believers into 2nd class citizens on this forum. Believers can say whatever they want - including verbally smacking around non-believers or reveling in their bigotry against everyone from gays to liberals. And we can say nothing in return because *gasp* WE might be offensive. What a joke.
No matter how long I'm gone - whether it's a few months or over a year - I ALWAYS come back to this exact same argument. And more and more believers are taking up this mindset - which means my time here is already on a clock. Every time I come back, more and more believers are demanding that atheists no longer criticize their religion ... AT ALL.
This forum has already been diminished by leaps and bounds once the rules against discussing religion and politics or religion and science were put in place. This nonsense is a bridge too far.
You are disappointed by something that is not so.
I never said, or implied, that the Atheists (or anyone) should/must "sit down and shut up."
I said that "Respectful analysis, discussion, & even debate...understood and even encouraged. Bashing, mocking, and insults...not cool."
I feel that is how it should be about any different views...not just Theological views.
There is a big difference between discussion/debate and bashing/insults.
I have requested a sub-forum for Pantheism/Panentheism...it was refused.
Of course, I did not make those rules.
It does not specifically define "Bashing"...but it is usually pretty obvious to me when it crosses over from analysis to bashing...though that may also vary from person to person.
The God doesn't answer prayers meme is a controversial one. There will always be people claiming their prayers are regularly answered. But the conventional wisdom is that God doesn't answer prayers and this has been borne out by study after study. You don't need studies to prove the obvious: people pray for sick loved ones and the loved ones still die. The fall-back excuse is that God's ways are mysterious or any one or more of hundreds of reasons I have enumerated in past posts, about how apologists say certain conditions haven't been met by praying people before God can hear their prayers. If one just looks at the obvious--that whatever power is running this universe simply doesn't care about prayers being offered to it or is completely oblivious to them then it all begins to make perfect sense. The issue of whether this higher power has a duty to care in the case of prayer becomes secondary to the larger issue of whether or not this higher power has a duty of at least concern for all the suffering going on in the world.
We have been informed by the same source you got your information about God....that suffering/evil is a good thing.
A "fruit of the Spirit" even....right they with peace, joy, and love.
How does that figure into your objections about the world?
thx for the response.
I think many/most have gone thru that. I know I have.
I can't answer for you, or for anybody else, but for me I found God in the overlooked - taken for granted- seemingly ordinary everyday everybody around me: when you open your heart to be filled with the little things, God grows it and Himself fills it to overflowing.
Seems to me you're instead looking for a 'Prince Ali' entrance:
But former Christians who are now atheists are atheists specifically because they opened their hearts to be filled by God/Jesus only to be left high and dry when nothing happened. If that happens often enough people just get tired of waiting around. If this is a God who isn't even aware people are looking for something from him then it's an expected response on their part.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
