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I don't see that you've explained anything about why you have an issue with me asking Thrill the question I did. You said such a question comes off to an atheist the same as asking about Zeus. Well, how does that come off? Ridiculous? Not to me, not if it's asked with sincerity by someone who genuinely thought it would be beneficial to me to "experience Zeus". And I might ask that person about it. And, who knows, we might find that we were both experiencing something similar.
At any rate. Thrill, by his own definition, is not an atheist. He seems to me to still be believing a variation of the version of the Bible-god that he and I once did. So, my questions to him were in that context.
I do feel like there is a lot of that going on, Arach.
I honestly don't know if it's always intentional or if it's just that people have blind spots and can't even see the answers that are there. I notice the same sort of thing with some Christian posters on this forum as I do with some of the atheists. And then I think, surely I have blind spots, too.
It's got to be a wee bit frustrating for everyone who is trying to communicate their point of view here, to feel like a big chunk of the time people aren't hearing what they are really saying. But, such is the nature of the beast. So, most of the time I just enjoy the exchange and chalk it all up to learning opportunities.
Not everyone's mindset is compatible with abstractions that vary too far from their material experiences and conditioning - e.g., concrete thinkers. For some, the self-congratulatory pragmatism of an unfettered physical reality satisfies sufficiently to preclude any need for abstraction beyond the limits of sensory data. For others, the comfort of the rigid rules and requirements of a fundamentalist dogma make the world less confusing. Ironically, by including the Hell threat, fundamentalists incorporate the kind of stimulus that can break down that comfort level for the more sensitive and loving among them.
Yeah it does; because there are many people out there who don't reject a god or religion (per the thread), but they do not live full and happy lives. That said, is it a god one is experiencing by living a full and happy life, or just positive consequences as a result of good choices and attitude (and/or random luck as well)? I see it as the latter; our actions are more meaningful than our 'beliefs' and 'disbeliefs'.
I agree and I think it matters we connect these dots correctly for more than a few reasons. Getting cause/effect correct is important, just like when we are considering public policy or how best to avoid problems, make progress. On that level, it is very important to understand what is going on around us and why, or we make bad decisions, bad policies.
Doesn't matter an iota to me what any one individual believes, especially if they "stay in their lane," but when in the aggregate people band together and promote what doesn't make good sense all considered, for all concerned, when harm can come about as a result, that's when what people think begins to matter. In the aggregate.
As explained before...
"Man's ability to theorize is a faculty that allows Man to advance toward greater awareness and understanding of universal truth. The theoretical guides Man to further scientific discovery. However, when conjecture about the supernatural leads to faith and religious inculcation rather than facts, reason and logic, great harm can and does come to Man instead. This is because the great majority of people still today cannot accept the confines of science. Instead conjecture is continuously promoted as truth ultimately to the point of creating profound divisions between people resulting in great conflict, violence and war still raging to this day; the Crusades, Protestants v Catholics, Jews v Muslims, Shiites v Sunnis."
Not everyone's mindset is compatible with abstractions that vary too far from their material experiences and conditioning - e.g., concrete thinkers. For some, the self-congratulatory pragmatism of an unfettered physical reality satisfies sufficiently to preclude any need for abstraction beyond the limits of sensory data. For others, the comfort of the rigid rules and requirements of a fundamentalist dogma make the world less confusing. Ironically, by including the Hell threat, fundamentalists incorporate the kind of stimulus that can break down that comfort level for the more sensitive and loving among them.
How long does it take to learn to write gibberish of this quality?
I agree.
But, I know for me I'm so darn thick - I had to suffer a bit - and many times (thick, remember)
that that was how I finally 'got it'.
Like, for me, I DO need a brick to fall on my head.
When I learn spiritually from beauty that's a great thing.
Needless to say there are many ways to go about learning; from mistakes, from hardship, from success, from pain and hardship. From others and on and on...
"We don't change because we see the light. We change because we feel the heat."
May we all become as enlightened as we are able with as little suffering as possible, but also while knowing that suffering is inevitable.
I don't see that you've explained anything about why you have an issue with me asking Thrill the question I did. You said such a question comes off to an atheist the same as asking about Zeus. Well, how does that come off? Ridiculous? Not to me, not if it's asked with sincerity by someone who genuinely thought it would be beneficial to me to "experience Zeus". And I might ask that person about it. And, who knows, we might find that we were both experiencing something similar.
At any rate. Thrill, by his own definition, is not an atheist. He seems to me to still be believing a variation of the version of the Bible-god that he and I once did. So, my questions to him were in that context.
When the Ten Truths are the only viable and reasonable way to view our Reality, it fosters disdain and even complete consternation over any views that differ, especially those that radically depart from them. The amazing creativity of human imagination, when engaged in trying to understand our Reality and its God, has created such a plethora of confusing and contradictory versions that reconciling them is abandoned and rejection of the entire effort is the result.
When the Ten Truths are the only viable and reasonable way to view our Reality, it fosters disdain and even complete consternation over any views that differ, especially those that radically depart from them. The amazing creativity of human imagination, when engaged in trying to understand our Reality and its God, has created such a plethora of confusing and contradictory versions that reconciling them is abandoned and rejection of the entire effort is the result.
Far from the Ten Truths being "the only viable and reasonable way to view our reality," they are talking points! Simple subject of possible discussion. To be expanded upon, condemned or crapped upon as anyone may like. Is it at all possible to consider the merit of any view different from yours without all this angst and disdain and all the rest you forever want to throw into the air? You are becoming nothing but an intellectual wet blanket!
"I'm interested to know how many atheists on R&S would convert to Christianity if they were somehow convinced it's true. Thoughts?"
answer the question please.
I surmise approximately the same number as would ride a dragon were they to turn out to be real.
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So, most of the time I just enjoy the exchange and chalk it all up to learning opportunities.
