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The way I have explained to you, because of the words and questions you choose. Beliefs you express...
I don't see that you've explained anything about why you have an issue with me asking Thrill the question I did. You said such a question comes off to an atheist the same as asking about Zeus. Well, how does that come off? Ridiculous? Not to me, not if it's asked with sincerity by someone who genuinely thought it would be beneficial to me to "experience Zeus". And I might ask that person about it. And, who knows, we might find that we were both experiencing something similar.
At any rate. Thrill, by his own definition, is not an atheist. He seems to me to still be believing a variation of the version of the Bible-god that he and I once did. So, my questions to him were in that context.
Well, I've been around here for a while, and it seems like Thrill experiences some angst about his beliefs. Maybe I'm misreading him. Could be. And he's certainly welcome to ignore my questions or let me know that he doesn't like me asking. It's like I said in my post, when it seems to me that someone is indicating that their belief system is a problem for them in some way, I may feel that asking them to reevaluate could be helpful to them.
I haven't asked you the question. I don't think I usually ask that of anyone on here. Thrill has a history here and we both survived and came out of a similar belief system. I care about him. Shoot me.
I'm not trying to ignore you, Pleroo. Honest. I have posted several lengthy answers to your queries so it shows I'm interested in replying. But in my posts I seem to make your confusion worse rather than clearing it up. Sorry about that. See, it's not that I'm in angst about God. If God doesn't want to help us, that's His business. All I try to do is point out to people that God is NOT in the "helping people out" business. That should be obvious to anyone who takes a good look at the world we live in. Christians try to give this impression God loves us SOOOOOOO much that He....yadayada when the truth is God doesn't lift a finger to help us. That's evident, but Christians try to convince us He does without offering any proof at all except the woo they experience in their spirit when they get a rush of endorphins.
Ask me a specific question, Pleroo. I'll try to answer it as best I can.
I'm not trying to ignore you, Pleroo. Honest. I have posted several lengthy answers to your queries so it shows I'm interested in replying. But in my posts I seem to make your confusion worse rather than clearing it up. Sorry about that. See, it's not that I'm in angst about God. If God doesn't want to help us, that's His business. All I try to do is point out to people that God is NOT in the "helping people out" business. That should be obvious to anyone who takes a good look at the world we live in. Christians try to give this impression God loves us SOOOOOOO much that He....yadayada when the truth is God doesn't lift a finger to help us. That's evident, but Christians try to convince us He does without offering any proof at all except the woo they experience in their spirit when they get a rush of endorphins.
Ask me a specific question, Pleroo. I'll try to answer it as best I can.
You're fine. I wasn't expecting an answer to my last post to you. As I said, it was just something for you to consider. You keep pointing out that, in your experience, God doesn't help. Just know that when you say that, it seems like you're wishing God WOULD. And, so, I will probably, from time to time, point out that, in my experience, I've received help from God.
Part 2 in a series, hahahahahaha
So how does one nurture a desire to exp this 'Creator, Infinite Intelligence'...of course, dropping any weird concepts you have been fed.
Once the curiosity is there...a sincere curiosity...this is my suggestion:
Read things from people that gained nothing by talking about their 'Divine' exp - in fact, may have been mocked,
excommunicated, lived in poverty if that pleases you.
Read things from the 12th c - where you would tend not to doubt and roll your eyes.
In this way you become even more eager to continue your 'search'. Asking why, why are they saying things like, Lord, Lord I see You everywhere, Your radiance fills every part of me - my heart burns with your love and in turn my love for You. Never let me go. What makes a person say such things!!? (Only to be mocked and ridiculed, scrutinized by the Church, even.)Ha!
After you have spent 6 months surrounding yourself with these writings and poetry,
intimate declarations of love - (i could suggest a list from many diff centuries and cultures) -
talk to me privately, ask me questions ...maybe your doubt is SO great this things don't move you at all.
I would say drop your questions just for awhile. Forget how the prayers from the church never
helped your eye. Why? To sensitize your heart and intuition; not
giving attention to the logic of the mind...and it's constant questions and doubts.
This is to develop an openness - a simple openness...(not even a belief, yet.)
Everything we do with quality is a preparation.
We heat a grill perfectly before we place the well marinated steak.
We prepare ourselves before diving into the water.
We prepare ourselves and our home to have a guest visit.
We prepare for a job interview,
This is a preparation to meet your Maker.
Hi Miss H. You do know I was a fiend-amentalist for 60 years so I've done the "Ask God for what you want and He will answer you without fail" bit. Never worked for me. That I stuck with it for so long is a testament to my stupidity. I'm just trying to save the young-uns here the grief and angst I went through being completely ignored by God. It's a sort of "been there, done that" and I'm worn out trying. So God will have to come to me if He's interested in me experiencing all these great feelings you and Pleroo and others experience. I've already gone to Him and He was out to a 60-year lunch. What are ya gonna do?
"atheists do not believe any god-claim but say of Biblegod 'Does not exist'"
Are you saying you're certain that the God of the Bible does not exist? or are those quote marks around 'Does not exist' an indication of your agnosticism about it?
I don't understand why we have to keep going over this so often.
The general point of view of atheists is -- we don't see any significant evidence to support the view of a biblegod. And until we see significant evidence, we will continue to not believe. If we see significant evidence that biblegod does exist, then we will change our viewpoint. To some extent, we mirror the way scientists think; that's certainly not how the christian right operates.
Basically yes, My conviction is high (up in the 99%) that the god of the Bible does not and cannot exist. My conviction on any sorta-god is more like 95%. That much less of a risky bet
Of course it gets complicated when a god -claim arises for ......drumroll as I coin an epithet... God-U-Like comes into it. Essentially, the God of the Bible..but not Like the god of the Bible. In Fact Ghost -Biblegod
Which is like saying that it is god but not the god of the Bible, and Mystic would understand (or should) that very well as he believes in the God of the Bible but is nothing to do with the God of the bits of the Bible that he doesn't much like.
It's bloody evident at this point that we are talking about a god created in man's own image and only achieving a degree of consistency when an Authority dictates what it is, and the fashions change to keep pace with humanist morals there, too.
So more caveats than would make a handrail to the moon, but just confusing what is simple: Biblegod is a myth; a possible Cosmic creator is an unverified claim. One I don't know about, the other one I'm pretty sure i do.
And I may post a video
Yep this one...it's relevant as is is the post Dover fallout as creationism tries to pretend that ID is about a possible cosmic creator and Not about Biblegod - which of course it is.
OK, you're "quite sure" that the God of the Bible does not exist, but you're willing to concede that you can't be certain; that the God of the Bible actually might exist?
Is that why you put quote marks around 'Does not exist', to indicate your agnosticism?
You posted that video simply to connect ID and belief in the God of the Bible? So what? What is the significance of that in relation to this thread topic, "Atheism as a rejection of an evil god"
You're fine. I wasn't expecting an answer to my last post to you. As I said, it was just something for you to consider. You keep pointing out that, in your experience, God doesn't help. Just know that when you say that, it seems like you're wishing God WOULD. And, so, I will probably, from time to time, point out that, in my experience, I've received help from God.
Bold above: sure I wish God would. But it's like wishing I were as rich as Bill Gates. I know it's not going to happen so I don't overly concern myself. I am more interested in not allowing Christians to brainwash gullible people with the belief Jesus loves them so they should rely on him. He doesn't. They shouldn't. He can't. He died 2000 years ago. His dust is blowing around somewhere in the Middle east right now. Nobody is going to help people but themselves. That's the message I am trying to get across to people.
"atheists do not believe any god-claim but say of Biblegod 'Does not exist'"
Are you saying you're certain that the God of the Bible does not exist? or are those quote marks around 'Does not exist' an indication of your agnosticism about it?
Speaking for myself; I am certain the Gods of the Bible do not exist. Yes, Gods - plural. There are several identifiable gods in the Old Testament. But I'm assuming you would be referring to the god of Moses, Yahweh.
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