Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (difference, choice, atheists)
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It doesn't matter it's your belief (or my disbelief); point being - what truly matters is our actions (and there are many who believe as you do, yet they are hurting/suffering). That should matter.
Never deny someone the priveledge of their own suffering.
There is no spiritual growth without attendent pain.
I bolded 'trying' cuz I dislike that word.
Yoda: Do not try, do.
You know I think you are amazing and you are much wiser than me.
However, I like trying. There can be good and bad with any word, but sincere trying I think is important in life and to God.
Sometimes you can try as hard as you want, but it just isn't meant to be. That doesn't mean that there can't be value in trying in a failed effort. With freewill comes choices, trying to achieve, trying to help, trying to be kind...goes a long ways and speaks to ones heart.
For example, pretty much all my school initiatives failed as a senior in high school....one of which was a "mix-it-up Monday" to sit with different kids at lunch...so you meet new people and no one is eating by themselves...to be less "cliquey"...etc It didn't talk hold, but I would then do it myself anyways...I am friendly enough that people will put up with my annoying side! I tried to get it to go, I failed, but I just had someone tell me recently how it meant a lot to them that I sat with her a few times and then introduced her to other people. Also, even though my plan failed, I learned experiences of trying to persuade others to join in and etc...
Another example...sometimes I experiment with a new recipe and try something that has never been done before...and I find it wasn't so good...and I'll never bake it again!
I try...a lot...really hard to settle my anxiety and I often fail...it has been getting better though and I've learned new techniques through trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Hi Miss H. You do know I was a fiend-amentalist for 60 years so I've done the "Ask God for what you want and He will answer you without fail" bit. Never worked for me. That I stuck with it for so long is a testament to my stupidity. I'm just trying to save the young-uns here the grief and angst I went through being completely ignored by God. It's a sort of "been there, done that" and I'm worn out trying. So God will have to come to me if He's interested in me experiencing all these great feelings you and Pleroo and others experience. I've already gone to Him and He was out to a 60-year lunch. What are ya gonna do?
You aren't stupid.
Love yourself.
I don't know what you prayed for, but somethings aren't meant to be handed to us and other things just aren't meant to be.
Get away from all human sounds...even cars...sit in nature...calm yourself...listen for an inner voice. You'll find love and you are deserving of love.
Never deny someone the priveledge of their own suffering.
There is no spiritual growth without attendent pain.
People can suffer all they want, lol. I was merely speaking to 'actions' being far more meaningful than 'spiritual pain', 'rejection of an evil god' (per the thread) or whatever it is you're speaking to.
People can suffer all they want, lol. I was merely speaking to 'actions' being far more meaningful than 'spiritual pain', 'rejection of an evil god' (per the thread) or whatever it is you're speaking to.
I'm not sure my percentages are the same as yours, regardless what sort of god we might be talking about, but I tend to avoid that form of measurement in general. For me it's more like I have absolute confidence there is no proof a god exists. None I've been able to recognize as such in any case.
Fair enough. I am being a bit tongue in cheek about specific percentages. Essentially there are reasons why I am not persuaded by the arguments for an intelligent creator, but the description of the god in Bible are reasons why I am highly confident that no such god exists. If there is some sort of Mind behind It All, that (like the others- that I'm aware of) is not It.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Or my version: "Ask not what you can do for God; ask what God can do for you!!"
I get it - if a god is useless, why bother about it - just as UR implies, without the stick and carrot, why bother about religion?
But the believers will find this incomprehensible and even indicating atheist arrogance. They will not understand that the idea of grovelling to an invisible bully seems ludicrous to us, especially one that doesn't do anything.
(P.S. As usual the Us and We is not me acting as spokesman for atheists, but my reflecting the generality of thought that I glean from what atheists say in many articles, posts and videos. If something is my own somewhat individual view, I use "I").
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-29-2020 at 11:04 PM..
You're fine. I wasn't expecting an answer to my last post to you. As I said, it was just something for you to consider. You keep pointing out that, in your experience, God doesn't help. Just know that when you say that, it seems like you're wishing God WOULD. And, so, I will probably, from time to time, point out that, in my experience, I've received help from God.
There's the problem, right there (btw, glad to see that the explanations and efforts at understanding keep the discussion amicable). It is not wishing that God would do something, and never mind sending helpful tornadoes and finding your car keys, or giving it credit for something that you or somebody else did for you, but us not seeing the case for an intervening god being any better than the case for a creating god, a god that sends inspiration, prophecy and (especially) end of world predictions, nor for the god described in the utterly unreliable Bible.
This means not that atheists are consumed with arrogance towards God or are angry at God for not sending us a new bike, any more than Christians are consumed with arrogance towards Ganesh, Allah or Horus or are angry at them for not sending Dawkins a terminal disease, but they do not believe they are or were real and simply do not care about them. Or their religions, apart from Allah's. That one bothers them as much as it bothers atheists
OK, you're "quite sure" that the God of the Bible does not exist, but you're willing to concede that you can't be certain; that the God of the Bible actually might exist?
Rather I (we) can't be certain about an intelligent creator of some kind; not until the Big Three gaps are walled up (Cosmic origins, Abiogenesis and Consciousness - though I believe that progress is being made). It is Biblegod that I feel confident does not and cannot exist.
Quote:
Is that why you put quote marks around 'Does not exist', to indicate your agnosticism?
Partly, but mainly because atheists say it. I have said it myself. It is not a claim to knowing it, like knowing that the cetan sequence proves 'Macro' evolution, but expresses a high degree of confidence.
Quote:
You posted that video simply to connect ID and belief in the God of the Bible? So what? What is the significance of that in relation to this thread topic, "Atheism as a rejection of an evil god"
purely self indulgence. But it does (as I said) follow on from the idea that an intelligent creator does not = Biblegod, which is the difference between a possible creator and the rejection of the god of the Bible as something we are so sure doesn't exist (the problem of Evil is part of that) that we say it: "Does not exist".
P.s, you see that I am willing to answer any reasonable questions that I..find interesting, I suppose. There are others like 'wonderful -feeling' -god, theological debates or Biblequote- interpretation that I can't be bothered with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
There are some fundamental flaws in your logic. Claiming certainty is irrational.
No, you missed it a high degree of certainty is not an irrational claim to knowing for sure, but having very good reasons to be sure of it. It is a subtle difference that believers consistently miss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
Speaking for myself; I am certain the Gods of the Bible do not exist. Yes, Gods - plural. There are several identifiable gods in the Old Testament. But I'm assuming you would be referring to the god of Moses, Yahweh.
Cue: "But it's all the same God!"
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-29-2020 at 11:57 PM..
It doesn't matter it's your belief (or my disbelief); point being - what truly matters is our actions (and there are many who believe as you do, yet they are hurting/suffering). That should matter.
CC, I'm liking your posting more and more as you go on
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg
Never deny someone the priveledge of their own suffering.
There is no spiritual growth without attendent pain.
Too narrow. Say rather: "Never deny someone the privilege of their own development.
There is no personal growth without attendant learning - either through good experiences or bad."
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I see no reason why spiritual growth only occurs under pain.
Exactly.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-30-2020 at 12:16 AM..
There are some fundamental flaws in your logic. Claiming certainty is irrational.
So you are not sure if you can have a circle with 4 corners?
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