Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (atheist, quote, Christian)
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This has been debunked before. As I recall, he is approaching it from a biochemical engineering point of view and he is evidently subscribing to the 'whirlwind in a junkyard' argument, which is fallacious because time in fact works in favour of natural design - both in chemical evolution and biochemical.
What works, survives; what doesn't goes extinct. And the survival arms -race leads to more and more complexity. "Natural" accounts perfectly for this, and if James Tour understood evolution as well as he does chemicals, he'd know this.
Thus your appeal to a string of divine interventions to make evolution work is simply I/C. And I/C has been ruled invalid as a credible scientific theory, both by science, and in the law courts, where Irreducible Complexity (which is what you are arguing) was deemed not science and in fact Creationism.
To assume your understanding of evolution is better than that of James Tour is monumentally delusional.
As you know, Thrillo, I think very highly of you, and I do not claim to know that there is no kind of Cosmic mind, even if I do not believe in one.
There are even some arguments to make for some kind of Order, bordering on organised control in the Cosmos. As Jonesey has been posting about for a while, with even Dawkins seeming to make some moves towards crediting this 'God of Einstein'.
But I do not think that the old "Classic" arguments from Design, Complexity or 'Information' make a case. I can respect your belief (or at least crediting the probability) of a cosmic mind, with some arguments, but not those old ID standbys.
and, avoid any atheist, at all cost, that use science to debunk your position.
"the information" line of logic makes perfect sense when you think of it outside your anti-god for social change. in fact, it makes so much sense you refuse to face me down face to face and talk about it.
something about I will be holding you as accountable as you theist. And you don't like it.
You claim no one is hand-waving, then you go on to do just that...
“Time working against the process? That alone is enough to NOT watch your video.
Your Discovery Institute video is refuted by 1) being a Discovery Institute video,...”
Your eagerness to dismiss information based the source of that information is not a trait of a logical thinker.
Your English is fine, your reasoning is infantile. I feel sorry for you. You’re a troubled individual who seems desperate to convince yourself that God doesn’t exist. You’ll learn the truth one day.
The problem is on your side. The terminal flaw in the argument of the video (which as I said, has been pointed out before) amply justifies Harry and I not sitting through it, as surely as the misrepresentation of evolution (theory and evidence) in the first 5 minutes of his string of creationist videos posted by the poster - boy for Failed Creationist arguments, Eusebius, justified me saying 'That has screwed the pooch of that video and I don't need to watch the rest", and his protests that I hadn't watched it all (he never watched any of mine or even mentioned them) were futile.
Same here. It seems that this guy is out of his field and thus his 'scientific credentials' are a false appeal to Authority. In this respect, Iwash, Both Harry and I may well be better informed on Evolution Theory than he is.
So not only are your comments unsound, invalid and uncalled for, but they betray very adequately the maliciousness, hypocrisy, and arrogance that Christianity brings out in people who are (as I'm sure is so in your case) basically decent people.
The problem is on your side. The terminal flaw in the argument of the video (which as I said, has been pointed out before) amply justifies Harry and I not sitting through it, as surely as the misrepresentation of evolution (theory and evidence) in the first 5 minutes of his string of creationist videos justified me saying 'THat has screwed the pooch of that video and I don't need to watch the rest, and his protests that I hadn't watched it all (he never watched any of mine or even mentioned them) were futile.
Same here. It seems that this guy is out of his field and thus his 'scientific credentials' are a false appeal to Authority. In this respect, Iwash, Both Harry and I may well be better informed on Evolution Theory than he is.
So not only are your comments unsound, invalid and uncalled for, but they betray very adequately the maliciousness, hypocrisy, and arrogance that Christianity brings out in people who are (as I'm sure is so in your case) basically decent people.
the problem with hs side is the exact same problem with your side.
you both avoid any facts that say you are half right and half wrong. Its has to be anti-god or deity and nothing is allowed in between.
To assume your understanding of evolution is better than that of James Tour is monumentally delusional.
That is a claim that you would have to justify. This is not strictly 'evolution' but abiogenesis. His insistence that this cannot naturally happen with biochemicals flies in the face of evolutionary thought on biochemcals and even Chemical evolution, which is a fascinating subject in itself, being based on evidence that chemicals will tend naturally towards order and complexity (Thermo 2 applies here) and the claim that a lack of planning, design and control will tend towards (over Time) chaos, is simply false, at least in respect of open systems like the earth, which gets input power from the sun.
Thus, you are wrong and you should now know that you are wrong.
If you want to maintain your case without looking a denialist dumbcluck, you will have to post something better than unsupported denunciations appealing to the sort of Scientific Authority that the creationist will toss in the bin at need as 'human opinion' or 'they get paid to lie by corporations, anyway'.
There is a saying amongst atheists that we Dare Not Utter but the way you post, I'm sorely tempted, sometimes.
That is a claim that you would have to justify. This is not strictly 'evolution' but abiogenesis. His insistence that this cannot naturally happen with biochemicals flies in the face of evolutionary thought on biochemcals and even Chemical evolution, which is a fascinating subject in itself, being based on evidence that chemicals will tend naturally towards order and complexity (Thermo 2 applies here) and the claim that a lack of planning, design and control will tend towards (over Time) chaos, is simply false, at least in respect of open systems like the earth, which gets input power from the sun.
Thus, you are wrong and you should now know that you are wrong.
If you want to maintain your case without looking a denialist dumbcluck, you will have to post something better than unsupported denunciations appealing to the sort of Scientific Authority that the creationist will toss in the bin at need as 'human opinion' or 'they get paid to lie by corporations, anyway'.
There is a saying amongst atheists that we Dare Not Utter but the way you post, I'm sorely tempted, sometimes.
What atheist saying is that? “I have no solid worldview of my own”?
You claim no one is hand-waving, then you go on to do just that...
“Time working against the process? That alone is enough to NOT watch your video.
Your Discovery Institute video is refuted by 1) being a Discovery Institute video,...”
Your eagerness to dismiss information based the source of that information is not a trait of a logical thinker.
Your English is fine, your reasoning is infantile. I feel sorry for you. You’re a troubled individual who seems desperate to convince yourself that God doesn’t exist. You’ll learn the truth one day.
You should either stop psychoanalyzing people you've never met, or willingly submit to the psychoanalyzing that we atheists do. Which is it going to be?
If his "reasoning is infantile", what is keeping secret files on other posters?
To assume your understanding of evolution is better than that of James Tour is monumentally delusional.
As a person with two degrees in the geosciences, including an emphasis in Paleozoic invertebrate paleontology, I'd like to know what your background expertise is in understanding evolution.
can he care and not do anything about it? Like I care about bugs, I love bugs, ants are my absolute favorite. They are like walking brain cells. But I know I will step on a few when I walk around.
Or, when I drive to the shore my car is covered in in bugs. When the big ones hit I even feel bad ... for a sec.
No. If He cares He would do something about it. Otherwise He would not be God. If He doesn't do anything about it it's assuredly because He doesn't care. One suspicion I have is that if there truly is another dimension, a spiritual one, then this God inhabits it wholly and isn't even aware of what's happening down here. If He is aware of what is going on down here, then we are back to the idea of "How could a God possibly stand idly by and watch little children being tortured and not intervene?" Two possibilities by my reckoning: either He deliberately shuts off any feelings about it like a spigot in order to respect the natural laws He put in place, or He simply doesn't care. It doesn't touch Him. I go with either one, but favor the latter.
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that the creationist will toss in the bin at need as 'human opinion' or 'they get paid to lie by corporations, anyway'.
but the way you post, I'm sorely tempted, sometimes.
