Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (disciple, Egyptian, church)
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I think you all secretly enjoy it, to tell the truth.
Hell, I won't deny that. I used to be on the debate team in college. As I think I said elsewhere, it's one way I keep my mind sharp - because I could easily become mushy and moronic living where I do. There's literally nothing within 100 miles of me that exercises the gray matter.
If this so-called God didn't help me then, I have no reason to believe he's going to suddenly get off his duff and help me now - considering it's far too late. God would literally have to work miracles so big they wouldn't be able to stay hidden - the news, various churches, preachers and rabbis and priests would be crawling all over my house.
Seriously ... in order to fix things now, it would take divine miracles the likes of which haven't been seen since ancient Egypt.
But he could've fixed things back then and been subtle about it. He missed his chance.
So I'm going to take the very safe risk and assume this being doesn't exist. At best, a god might exist somewhere, but whatever it is, it doesn't care how much we hurt emotionally or physically. It certainly doesn't care who we have sex with or abortions or euthenasia or birth control or which gender uses which bathroom, or any of the other things religion seems so obsessed over.
So I agree ... I quit trying ... and it was a relief.
I've quit a couple of times. Earlier in life I wanted to be an atheist, but I kept finding myself "praying to a God I didn't believe in" to quote whatever song it is that contains that lyric. Instead, I sought different forms of Christianity, the best being the liberal, open-minded Episcopal version, which for a time served me well. However, I came to realize it was the community of people in which I was finding warmth and friendship and solace. Was THAT God? Then I came to a change in my life where I found myself living in a rural, wild place and connecting more with nature and its creatures and found a deeper sense of spirituality there. Was THAT God? Or is that what I sought--this connectivity?
At any rate, as I've stated too many times here lately, bottom line is that I have trouble believing there's a person-type God who loves me because I cannot feel any trace of such a love, and if I can't feel it, what good is it? Further, if I do believe in that God, then that God is cruel and appears to give but then plays tricks and snatches away or slaps hard just when one reaches out one's hand, and I don't want to believe in that God anyway. That God is straight-up mean. So best to believe this is just the way life is, all a crapshoot.
and so on and so on and so on and so on......... Are you all catching on to the ruse now?
And when you have a lot of people praying for a lot of different things, just though statistical probability, SOME prayers will be "answered." In other words, something someone prayed for will come to pass. And even though the number of answered prayers are far less than the number of unanswered prayers, people will STILL hang on to the hope that one day their own prayers will be answered - because they hear about prayers that were answered. Never mind that the number of prayers answered is statistically the same as either pure luck ... or praying for something that was likely to happen anyway.
Plenty of venom drips off theists' posts, as well. I've been a mod for four years. We see things you never will. The coldest, most heinous action I've ever seen anyone take on all of City-Data--not just R&S--was from a theist who did not like one of the mods, now deceased, simply because he was a Muslim, when he announced his terminal illness and impending death on the forum. Immediately they reported him for some minor technical violation of the TOS in his post and asked that it be deleted. You don't get more drippy with venom than that.
Another theist, now banned for other reasons, called me "Luciferian filth" for giving him yet another infraction for telling everyone else they were going to hell. I got a kick out of that one, actually, until he used it once too often and then I think the other mod sent him to the cornfield. We do give people a lot of chances.
It seems to me to be an even split, especially in the little circle of resident theists vs. atheists who seek to spar with one another on a regular basis. One throws out bait, and another swallows the hook, and off you all go, and both sides of the argument do it. I think you all secretly enjoy it, to tell the truth.
Plenty of venom drips off theists' posts, as well. I've been a mod for four years. We see things you never will. The coldest, most heinous action I've ever seen anyone take on all of City-Data--not just R&S--was from a theist who did not like one of the mods, now deceased, simply because he was a Muslim, when he announced his terminal illness and impending death on the forum. Immediately they reported him for some minor technical violation of the TOS in his post and asked that it be deleted. You don't get more drippy with venom than that.
Another theist, now banned for other reasons, called me "Luciferian filth" for giving him yet another infraction for telling everyone else they were going to hell. I got a kick out of that one, actually, until he used it once too often and then I think the other mod sent him to the cornfield. We do give people a lot of chances.
It seems to me to be an even split, especially in the little circle of resident theists vs. atheists who seek to spar with one another on a regular basis. One throws out bait, and another swallows the hook, and off you all go, and both sides of the argument do it. I think you all secretly enjoy it, to tell the truth.
I believe that you see some heavy stuff.
And, just to say...anyone that had a issue with that Moderator that passed on has serious issues. That guy was as balanced a Mainstream Religion person I have ever known of...and I learned a lot about Islam from his posts.
Very missed.
When was I ever secret about how much I like the high-octane exchanges?
Though I do believe if some Pedigree Religious were putting up a jillion posts touting some controversial edicts of their Faith, or referring to Darwin & his writings, Scientific Theories, and secularism in the way, and using the same terms I see used about Theological Texts, concepts, principles, Deities, prophets, and Adherents...those posts would not stand.
And this is why I do take some issue.
I know many (most) Theists/Spiritual are not able to view it as entertaining/amusing like I do.
In fact...I self-assess my take on it as being at a lower level than what is typical. Most Theist/Spiritual people are not cool with their Faith being insulted.
And when you have a lot of people praying for a lot of different things, just though statistical probability, SOME prayers will be "answered." In other words, something someone prayed for will come to pass. And even though the number of answered prayers are far less than the number of unanswered prayers, people will STILL hang on to the hope that one day their own prayers will be answered - because they hear about prayers that were answered. Never mind that the number of prayers answered is statistically the same as either pure luck ... or praying for something that was likely to happen anyway.
But sometimes we weren't praying for outcomes, but rather just for a message, or a connection, some sign that this loving, caring being loves and cares.
I know not to pray for sick people to be healed. Learned when I was a small child that they die anyway. Of course I thought it at the time was my fault for not praying correctly but I stopped doing it after a while. I had the impression after a while that whatever I prayed for, God would do the opposite, lol. Which is just as crazy as believing God will answer, I guess.
Thereafter I only prayed for guidance, and that seemed to be a connection, but I suspect it simply helped me to set aside an issue in my mind and in letting go of it, my subconscious sorted things out and helped me make decisions.
But yeah, when a player for football team A prays for a win and player for football team B prays for a win, one of those prayers WILL be answered.
Originally Posted by Shirina I beg to differ here. If, observationally, believing in a deity was the most reliable, then why am I posting, saying that no matter how much I prayed or no matter how hard I believed, my life did not change one iota. Nothing got easier, nothing became "smoother" or better in any way. Nor did I see, witness, or experience anything at all to suggest that some all-powerful entity exists. And even less evidence that this entity is up there screwing around with people's lives.
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Originally Posted by LearnMe Simple answer?
You're doing it all wrong. (I'll save him/them the keystrokes).
I'll spell it out (again):
In order to entice pagans to join their brand new religion, early Christian leaders wrote an eye-watering promise into the four gospels they claimed their avatar god Jesus made, "If you ask the Father for ANYTHING in my name he will give it to you." It was brilliant strategy. Get 'em roped into Christianity first and worry about how to justify unfulfilled phony promises later. And indeed eventually, as might be expected, pagan converts started complaining that their prayers weren't being answered. Time for the church leaders to go to work.
"How do we stop these pagans from leaving Christianity because Jesus isn't answering their prayers?" "Just tell them they have to do certain things to get their prayers answered."
I beg to differ here. If, observationally, believing in a deity was the most reliable, then why am I posting, saying that no matter how much I prayed or no matter how hard I believed, my life did not change one iota. Nothing got easier, nothing became "smoother" or better in any way. Nor did I see, witness, or experience anything at all to suggest that some all-powerful entity exists. And even less evidence that this entity is up there screwing around with people's lives.
This is different than what I said. I said, believing in some thing more is far more reliable than denying it all.
I believe in some thing more. I use a measurement. Just go outside and look around. You are part of that system. its is bigger and more complex than you. There is no deity and there is magic. We are stats. You weren't answered and you were screwed. There is no deity to blame. Its was not religions fault.
If we blame religion for the bad, then blame it for the good too.
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