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Christians have spent more money than anyone else in the world in helping the starving. So you are wrong as all atheists are.
I'll give you that Christians have indeed put a lot of effort into helping the starving and more. My own ancestors went to Africa to set up mission stations with hospitals and schools but their motives were less charitable - they wanted to convert the locals to Christianity. The natives were not starving or particularly sick - in fact, they were doing just fine.
The Transponder does not speak for all atheists. I said at the begining that it was my take. I'm saying how I see what the Irreligion campaign - which is separation of church and state applied to state-as-society, not just politics - has to aim at. It isn't forcing people to give up their beliefs but not have any particular priviledge for them - no more than any other. This requires a society based on irreligion, which means a humanist society, which is what we actually have.
Despite your abreaction, I think you may come to see that this is in your own interests in having your own views which may not suit more orthodox/mainstream Christianity.
Sorry this is a late reply. Just one evening Doing Sothing Else and I come back to see we moved on 10 pages. Lively discussion.
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Originally Posted by elyn02
He and I have had this discussion before, though, he may not remember. We do not share the same view points. I told him it is not possible. What I did not continue to say was that it is also inappropriate to even attempt to do it.
There we are. Some dissents in what we should be aiming for and whether it's even possible.
I see it as a mission statement - something to aim for. Beavering away at irreligion without an objective means working at something without knowing what one is intending to achieve.
Living in Europe I see a society where irreligion has been achieved. But we do not realise it. We still think that religion deserves 'respect' and even that the historical religion deserves particular respect. If America does what has happened (without anyone imposing anything) here, and sees it as a social mindset or worldview that influences society and politics- that's the important thing - then this will influence the West to be aware of irreligion as a social worldview.
Nonsense. If Bible God existed, then the Bible and the claims in it would be true. However, they are proven false.
Where are the written claims regarding life in other galaxies and "anything we don't know about today"? Let's test them to see if there is proof one way or another.
Correct. I in fact replied to Tzaph's argument but cancelled because the discussion had moved on (from New atheism to the usual arguments about 'is God- belief true or not?). As i thought, someone picked it up.
Whether there is life in the universe is like whether there is a god in the universe Nobody really knows, so there is no reason to believe either is true. However the indirect evidence suggests that Life is more probable than not, whereas a god (creator) is less probable than not.
But these 'have you looked everywhere in the universe?' arguments are irrelevant. The indication of what we know about the part of the universe we live in (solar system) shows No credible sign of life or gods and that is what matters. Nobody cares about a god that does not interact with us. It is that one we are really talking about. It's why atheism doesn't worry about Deists. It is about those who espouse religious claims.
A word about videos.
I'd say that watching videos can be very informative. While it is quite correct to refuse a gambit of providing links to books or videos rather than providing an argument on the forum, when an argument is posted and a vid (especially if reasonably short) can be helpful. But there is no ToS that requires that they be watched.
I see vids as a backup to an argument posted here rather than a substitute for an argument in itself.S
No More Debating
Commentary by Tyson Gill American Atheist - Sept/Oct 2018
More disagreement - which is fine. I have heard this before. Notably before the Hamm-Nye debate. "It will give creationism undeserved credibility" they said. They were wrong. It was the first nail in the coffin of creationism. It was right to do it and it had to be done.
So I think the debate (even though I say it is over, getting so many to see that it it is over, is another matter) has to go on and it is right that it should. Being silent is playing into the hand of religion as is what they would just love.
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
Atheists have a comfortable lead over religionists on the sanity scale.
I don't see it as 'insanity'. Though it can sure look like it It is rather irrationality. And it is (I argue) the norm in human thinking. rationality is a mental method that had to be discovered (or at least devised0 by humans, just as we had to devise science, rather than just guessing and backing up the guesses with religious authority.
Believers are no more insane than they are stupid. As soon as they change their minds and become irreligious, they are as smart and ans sane as any other.
You think you'd be allowed to have computers & talk on forums if you were from non christian countries. LOL. Nope. You'd be totally oppressed by evil forces. Only Christ gave you the freedoms you now enjoy. Even the freedom to express atheist views comes from Jesus. Try that & free speech in other countries & you're history
So you owe Jesus your lives whether you believe it or not
You think you'd be allowed to have computers & talk on forums if you were from non christian countries. LOL. Nope. You'd be totally oppressed by evil forces. Only Christ gave you the freedoms you now enjoy. Even the freedom to express atheist views comes from Jesus. Try that & free speech in other countries & you're history
So you owe Jesus your lives whether you believe it or not
I have been to a lot of non -Christian countries. They use computers a lot. The only places where their freedom to talk is curtailed (or they try to) is in some Muslim countries and I believe in China where the problem is not religion but anything that threatens the authority of the Ruling Party
.
It is no thanks to Christianity that we have freedom to dissent from religion in the west.
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Originally Posted by ocean777
God has shown me the future countless times & it always comes true in the following hours or days. So God has given me absolute proof all those times. The proof is a personal thing & each person will be given some proof at some time or other by God. They will know God is true, but people will still call them liars.
It's like the mystery of whether God exists or not is a necessary part of human life, & gives people the choice of whether to believe or not. If they open their minds & seek proof they will find it. If they close their minds then they will not see proof of God.
Like one guy was reading a book about how everyone is being closely watched by people from above the earth. He looked up & said, "Are you watching me too?", & a loud voice replied, "YES".
All his life he thought he had been alone but the moment he opened his mind to a higher possibility he discovered he was not alone after all. It's that simple sometimes. One time I asked God for a sign & instantly the calm sky above my head exploded with roaring thunder. God is here & all we have to do is open our minds a little
Those who have claimed to foretell the future through divine revelation have me croppers in my experience.
Nope. You're wrong. Christianity shaped the free world.
Africans by the zillions all worship Jesus at huge rallies & churches etc. I watch them on youtube.
So Christianity really took root & flourished there, thanks to the wonderful missionaries.
D'Nesh D'Souza wrote a really interesting book documenting it.
But just take a look around. Ever wonder why most homeless shelters and hospitals have religious names? It's because Christians (and Jews) open them.
There is a saying: "You cannot buy the truth with free soup".
While it may be true that some religions spend a lot on Charitable work, and it may even be true that it is done out of a desire to do Good rather than suck in converts, and it may even be that the desire to do good is altruistic rather than in terror of not being good enough to get into heaven and escape hell. It does not do a single thing to make any religion true.
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Originally Posted by phetaroi
"Indian-born American conservative political commentator, author, filmmaker, and conspiracy theorist, often described as a far right provocateur".
You just can't get away from them...can you.
Quite so. But that doesn't make the evidence put forward untrue. Bias can't be ignored (we have seen not a few times how some apologists here have posted evidence that actually didn't support their argument)but it doesn't actually invalidate the evidence used.
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Originally Posted by 303Guy
I'll give you that Christians have indeed put a lot of effort into helping the starving and more. My own ancestors went to Africa to set up mission stations with hospitals and schools but their motives were less charitable - they wanted to convert the locals to Christianity. The natives were not starving or particularly sick - in fact, they were doing just fine.
Exactly - while missionary - or Religious funded Charitable - work may provide needed help, it can't be ignored that a great deal just gets pumped into preaching.
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