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There we are. Some dissents in what we should be aiming for and whether it's even possible.
I see it as a mission statement - something to aim for. Beavering away at irreligion without an objective means working at something without knowing what one is intending to achieve.
Living in Europe I see a society where irreligion has been achieved. But we do not realise it. We still think that religion deserves 'respect' and even that the historical religion deserves particular respect. If America does what has happened (without anyone imposing anything) here, and sees it as a social mindset or worldview that influences society and politics- that's the important thing - then this will influence the West to be aware of irreligion as a social worldview.
The reason I say it is not possible or appropriate is because parents have to teach their children something. I did say long ago that the one thing I will fight for is my right to teach my daughter what I wanted her to learn. I still hold that belief even though I came from an abusive environment. There is a culture in the US I want her aware of, not necessarily afraid of, but just aware. And if it came down to forcing me to teach her something, I can still work around it. That's what I am getting at with my comments.
Maybe I should not read too much into headlines. I thought I saw some that mentioned the far right gaining traction in Europe. Is religion tied to those groups?
As far as telling believers they are mentally ill, I don't do that at home. But when my daughter comes to me that some Christian told her she will go to hell and that Jesus loves her, we just go through the usual motions. At this point she is able to identify opinions and claims and tie them to emotions. She understands the need to feel loved by some deity. Sometimes she thinks it would be great if there was some god out there.
But the main lesson we have her learning is "Just because somebody says something, doesn't make it true for you."
You think you'd be allowed to have computers & talk on forums if you were from non christian countries. LOL.
LOL indeed. As I said earlier. You need to get out more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777
Nope. You're wrong. Christianity shaped the free world.
Africans by the zillions all worship Jesus at huge rallies & churches etc. I watch them on youtube.
So Christianity really took root & flourished there, thanks to the wonderful missionaries.
Yes. It's a fact that Christianity tends to flourish in third-world countries. It's due to lack of education.
The reason I say it is not possible or appropriate is because parents have to teach their children something. People's identities are tied to religion. I did say long ago that the one thing I will fight for is my right to teach my daughter what I wanted her to learn and I still hold that belief even though I came from an abusive environment. There is a culture in the US I want her aware of, not necessarily afraid of, but just aware. And if it came down to forcing me to teach her something, I can still work around it.
Maybe I should not read too much into headlines. I thought I saw some that mentioned the far right gaining traction in Europe. Is religion tied to those groups?
I argue that both sides - religion and atheism - know how important it is to influence Childrens' thinking. This is why the battle for control of education is so important. It is neverthless, true that kids question when they grow up, either questioning religion when it is spoonfed or if they grow up in atheist households. Then the focus shifts from feeding a mindset to the family to feeding a mindset to the society.
Christianity (and Indeed any other religion) knows that you have to control the information delivered to the whole of society, to make sure the children get fed religion and when they grow up they still get fed religion.
We goddless bastards know it will work that way for ireligion, too. But we have one great advantage - Atheism is, on the evidence and logical reasoning, true, and religion isn't. We have 'Won' the debate on the argument. The job now is to win who get listened to by society.
Religion has failed to do it through subverting science and through subverting education (except in Muslim countries where the religion has always had a grip on education) and now they are trying to do it throug politics, and not only in America. And they look like succeeding more than they did on science and education, because politics thrives on authority and control and not on truth or reason.
I argue that both sides - religion and atheism - know how important it is to influence Childrens' thinking. This is why the battle for control of education is so important. It is neverthless, true that kids question when they grow up, either questioning religion when it is spoonfed or if they grow up in atheist households. Then the focus shifts from feeding a mindset to the family to feeding a mindset to the society.
Christianity (and Indeed any other religion) knows that you have to control the information delivered to the whole of society, to make sure the children get fed religion and when they grow up they still get fed religion.
We goddless bastards know it will work that way for ireligion, too. But we have one great advantage - Atheism is, on the evidence and logical reasoning, true, and religion isn't. We have 'Won' the debate on the argument. The job now is to win who get listened to by society.
Religion has failed to do it through subverting science and through subverting education (except in Muslim countries where the religion has always had a grip on education) and now they are trying to do it throug politics, and not only in America. And they look like succeeding more than they did on science and education, because politics thrives on authority and control and not on truth or reason.
Being able to make a well reasoned argument, which the schools are focusing on now, does not rely on being an atheist. Don't we often hear that education starts at home and it is the education that sticks?
If politics is succeeding because of authority and control, then truth or reason is not enough. It is important but not enough.
You think you'd be allowed to have computers & talk on forums if you were from non christian countries. LOL. Nope. You'd be totally oppressed by evil forces. Only Christ gave you the freedoms you now enjoy. Even the freedom to express atheist views comes from Jesus. Try that & free speech in other countries & you're history
So you owe Jesus your lives whether you believe it or not
Of course, on the other hand that christian missionary who went to the island off India...dead as a door nail.
Nope. You're wrong. Christianity shaped the free world.
Africans by the zillions all worship Jesus at huge rallies & churches etc. I watch them on youtube.
So Christianity really took root & flourished there, thanks to the wonderful missionaries.
I would like to ask what is New Atheism all about? What are its aims? What is its level of tolerance towards others that are not aligned with it? Does it seek to remove all religion or coexist? Go.
The third in a series: What motivates the 'New Atheist'?
(All comments are from the same person, a self-described: “Non Theist, Non Deist, Non Believer")
------
* Believers pass through here regularly. They stop briefly for a chance to preach to the unwashed unbelievers. But then they quickly witness their make believe world view being not only eviscerated, but effectively eviscerated. And they disappear in horror.
* When the debate involves the revision one's entire worldview, it can result in psychological damage
* Meanwhile we non believers are waiting in ever growing packs to eviscerate the poor foolishly unprepared religious newbies who stumble in to the forum,
* Atheists (non believers), on the other hand, tend to congregate in ever increasing number on the Religion and Spirituality forum by virtue of having scared most of the believers away. Come out and fight, you insecure girly men!
* I declare the religious wars to be over. The verdict is in. The verdict has been in for some time in fact. Believers lost BADLY.
* I consider many of the opinions that you and other believers hold to be wrong. Silly in fact. I do not oppose your right to hold such opinions. I DO oppose your right to impose your opinions on others, however.
------
This person is ever busy imposing his opinions on those who, in his view, have no right to impose their opinions on others, despite the fact he's on a Religion and Spirituality forum! Imagine coming to the R&S forum with the express purpose of opposing people who are religious or spiritual. The hypocrisy and self-righteousness of these evangelical anti-theists is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
This person is ever busy imposing his opinions on those who, in his view, have no right to impose their opinions on others, despite the fact he's on a Religion and Spirituality forum! Imagine coming to the R&S forum with the express purpose of opposing people who are religious or spiritual. The hypocrisy and self-righteousness of these evangelical anti-theists is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
I recognize the description and am pretty sure he is deserving of your adjectives!
The third in a series: What motivates the 'New Atheist'?
(All comments are from the same person, a self-described: “Non Theist, Non Deist, Non Believer")
------
* Believers pass through here regularly. They stop briefly for a chance to preach to the unwashed unbelievers. But then they quickly witness their make believe world view being not only eviscerated, but effectively eviscerated. And they disappear in horror.
* When the debate involves the revision one's entire worldview, it can result in psychological damage
* Meanwhile we non believers are waiting in ever growing packs to eviscerate the poor foolishly unprepared religious newbies who stumble in to the forum,
* Atheists (non believers), on the other hand, tend to congregate in ever increasing number on the Religion and Spirituality forum by virtue of having scared most of the believers away. Come out and fight, you insecure girly men!
* I declare the religious wars to be over. The verdict is in. The verdict has been in for some time in fact. Believers lost BADLY.
* I consider many of the opinions that you and other believers hold to be wrong. Silly in fact. I do not oppose your right to hold such opinions. I DO oppose your right to impose your opinions on others, however.
------
This person is ever busy imposing his opinions on those who, in his view, have no right to impose their opinions on others, despite the fact he's on a Religion and Spirituality forum! Imagine coming to the R&S forum with the express purpose of opposing people who are religious or spiritual. The hypocrisy and self-righteousness of these evangelical anti-theists is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
Yeah, what's wrong with that? How about you address his arguments instead of his right or lack of right to make them. You're boardline stalking the guy.
I recognize the description and am pretty sure he is deserving of your adjectives!
hubris
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