Intolerate Atheists Demand Removal of Memorial (abortion, Israel, service, premarital)

[~HecateWhisperCat~]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Who cares? The role of the Supreme Court is not to enforce popular votes. It exists to ensure that the popular vote isn't voting on something unconstitutional. For instance, you cannot have a popular vote to return all blacks to slave status because that would be unconstitutional - even if 100% of voters voted 'yes' to reinstituting slavery.

This is why people before brought up "mob rule" in this thread. The Supreme Court does it's best to plug the holes in our governmental system, to shore up the weaknesses in democracy. One of the most common failings of democracy is the tyranny of the majority.

The issue of gay marriage rights in some states were voted upon via a referendum on a ballot - which was one of the most egregious examples of a dysfunctional democracy. Allowing citizens to vote on the civil rights of a minority group is a textbook case of the majority inflicting tyranny in those states. In other words, it is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner that night. Get it?

The Supreme Court does it's level best to ensure that the sheep doesn't end up in the wolves pot with every vote. It doesn't just wait for a popular vote and then brainlessly enforce the results.



I love how you keep mentioning how it's a "small vocal minority" as if they don't have any rights - that small vocal minorities must inevitably be crushed every single time by the weight of a large vocal majority.

And no ... the courts are not being "boxed in" by anything. I know you want to think the separation of church and state is filled with all of these "gray areas" where no precedent has been set, but that's just not how it really is. According to the letter of the law, the school is violating the Constitution and will probably have to remove the memorial.

I wasn't cheering for either side ... until I saw the Christians in this thread arguing how they should be exempt from having to obey they law. I'm more of a "spirit of the law" kind of gal myself and could have lived just fine if the memorial had stayed where it is. But, since certain Christians apparently feel they are under no obligation to obey any law they don't like, I'm throwing in with the atheists. I've heard too many Christians say already that the Bible, not the Supreme Court, has the final word.



A public school cannot even give the appearance of endorsing or establishing a religion on it's grounds. If we did things by your way of thinking, schools could put crosses everywhere, make kids read the Bible, or do whatever the hell they want with religion in the school -- just as long as they concoct some BS story beforehand how, for example, Friday afternoon sermons aren't "endorsing or establishing a religion ... no, no, absolutely not. You see, we're -- uh -- holding weekly memorials for a beloved teacher who died back in the 40's. He loved to pray in the chapel."

And we would have to say in response, "Oooh, okay, well in that case, I don't mind at all if you drag kids to church every Friday and force them to listen to Christian mythology about how they have to accept Jesus as their savior or burn in hell. Just as long as you're not trying to endorse or establish a religion."



Heh. The very fact that religious groups feel the need to start making movies about God all of the sudden should clue you in as to just how well your religion is doing -- especially among the 30 and below crowd. There's almost never any preachy religious movies at the theaters until, suddenly, Christians looked up from their Bibles and noticed that secularism and raw spiritualism were gaining a lot of ground. Sure, the movie drew in large audiences - but only because a lot of religious people who wouldn't ever see a movie of any other kind decided to go to the theaters. Obviously Christianity is still overwhelmingly prevalent among Americans so there are lots of Christians who went to the movies. BUT, if you think the seats were being filled by a lot of non-Christians who walked out re-examining their secularist/atheist ways, think again.



Oh really? This sounds suspiciously like you're trying to convince yourself, not the rest of us.



Hmm, okay, I'll play the speculation game. I think the decline in church membership and religious affiliation is occurring, especially among the young, because religion outed itself as being mean, intolerant, hateful, and bigoted with its concerted push to deny gays the right to marry. When you couple that with noisy and prominent preachers who think everything from 9/11 to the Sandy Hook shootings was a result of sin (caused by the usual suspects like gays, feminists, intellectuals, and the ACLU) and people are getting turned off. Plus you have other issues like the pedophilia scandal in the Catholic Church as well as their indirect genocide of Africans in their Aids-ridden nations. Atheists, agnostics, and secularists are winning hands down on the internet, and that's where the young spend a lot of their time. It's inevitable in many ways that religion and its influence will decline even further as the older, more religious Americans die off to be replaced by secular-minded middle-aged adults.



Religion in the minds of many are starting to see religion's role in society as being restrictive, the authority figure who wants to try and control every aspect of their lives. Religion exists to tell us all how to dress, how to wear our hair, what music we can hear, what books we can read, what pictures we can look at, who we can associate with, and who we should hate.

*Begins slow clap*

[~HecateWhisperCat~]

Originally Posted by perry335654

I think it shows we need to learn from children, they don't see & understand politics, they just see a memorial for someone that they loved & admired and yet there are jerks think otherwise

I'm pretty sure that the majority of money raised came from adults not children :-P.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

This has been going on across the country, in many forms, for quite some time. Radical atheism run amuck.

LOL! What you're really saying here is, "OMG! It's enforcement of the U.S. Constitution run amok! Whatever shall we do?"

Never mind the fact that public schools have been heavily pushing Christianity to their "captured" students for almost 200 years before someone actually noticed making kids pray or read from the Bible was a direct and clear-cut violation of the 1st Amendment. Now the more activist atheists are playing the role of Constitutional bloodhounds making sure that schools adhere pretty staunchly to the Constitution.

The reason why so many Christians are angry with the atheists over this issue is because they want to ignore the law; they want to say:

"But judge, it's such a small violation of the U.S. Constitution. Can't we just keep breaking the law instead?"

Pretty soon you have schools all over the country putting up Virgin Mary icons, big banners quoting the Bible hanging in the gym and cafeteria, Christian-themed proms, and who knows what else - because the precedent will have been set. Yes, it's a-okay for government land and buildings to prominently display indirect messages that Christianity is the "one true" religion - and if you're not for us, you're against us. Isn't that right, Muslim student? Hindu student? Or any non-Christian student? Nice to be alienated and culturally isolated.

Bottom line here is that certain Christians are upset over this because they want the right to break the law whenever it suits them and if they can't plaster their religious iconography everywhere, then they're being persecuted and fed to the lions.

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

We call it "Law-fare".

We call it "obeying the law."

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

The ultimate goal is the purging of all religious symbols from the public arena.

If the religious symbolism breaks the law, then why do you think you should have the right to ignore the law? So yeah ... we might want to remove religion from the public arena. You folks certainly won't police your own ranks, so someone else will have to do it for you.

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

Once that is accomplished, the atheists will go after the private realm.

There isn't much that is more private than what two consenting adults do sexually in their bedrooms, but your religion was involved so heavily in that arena that sex in the 2000's was always a threesome. IF you get my meaning. So whining, moaning about atheism invading the private sphere is really lame. Really ... really lame.

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

All the while of course claiming there is "no ultimate agenda"

Oh let me guess. Because the Christian attempt to head off the "gay agenda" turned out to be a complete legal fiasco, you're going to start building another pile of garbage centered around the "atheist agenda."

LOL! and SNORT!

So many agendas, so little time! But yes, the whole world - even the aliens from Zeta Reticuli - have some kind of anti-Christian agenda going on. And YOU are being left out. Muahahahahaha!!

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

and that they are just doing it because some find it offensive

Wow, how the wheel turns ... because if what you say is true, it eerily reminds me of all the tightwad Christians who tried to stuff all the gays back into the closet because they found homosexuality offense. Kind of like the pediatrician who wouldn't even go to work in order to avoid having to see a lesbian couple.

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

separation of church and state (which does NOT appear in the U.S. Constitution)

The separation is implied, Dan. If you think I'm wrong, then please, by all means, explain to me how we can have freedom OF religion without freedom FROM religion and still maintain our freedoms?

Yeah, I'll wait right here while you ignore my question.

Originally Posted by DauntlessDan

They don't want it and they don't want you to have it. We are all supposed to worship them, their atheism and their gods.....

Here's your cookie, the reward for writing the dumbest sentence or post of the week:

[jeffbase40]

Originally Posted by Linda_d

The purpose of the Supreme Court -- and appellate courts in general in the US -- is to protect the rights of minorities from being trampled by the self-righteous bigotry of the majority.

The purpose of the Supreme Court should be to protect all rights. Which means not taking away the rights and freedom of the majority to satisfy the lone atheist who hates God.

[wolf39us]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

The purpose of the Supreme Court should be to protect all rights. Which means not taking away the rights and freedom of the majority to satisfy the lone atheist who hates God.

They are there to enforce the constitution and law. You just happen to be on the wrong side of the law.

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by perry335654

I think it shows we need to learn from children, they don't see & understand politics, they just see a memorial for someone that they loved & admired and yet there are jerks think otherwise

No they don't. The teacher died 11 years ago. The students at the school didn't know her (unless some student stayed at the school since 2004).

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

The purpose of the Supreme Court should be to protect all rights. Which means not taking away the rights and freedom of the majority to satisfy the lone atheist who hates God.

How silly to persist in claiming people "hate God" who have no belief in it.

Do you hate Shiva or Odin or Apollo?

[jeffbase40]

Originally Posted by TroutDude

How silly to persist in claiming people "hate God" who have no belief in it.

Do you hate Shiva or Odin or Apollo?

Not silly at all. I can read it in the tone and actions of most atheists including this forum. Mockery and making condescending remarks about Christians and the Bible are a minor extension of that attitude.

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

Not silly at all. I can read it in the tone and actions of most atheists including this forum. Mockery and making condescending remarks about Christians and the Bible are a minor extension of that attitude.

You didn't answer my question.

[jeffbase40]

Originally Posted by wolf39us

They are there to enforce the constitution and law. You just happen to be on the wrong side of the law.

Separation of church and state to the extent people of your side have distorted it does not exist in the Constitution. The school is not creating a law that establishes the Christian religion. If you find the mere sight of a cross or angel to be offensive, that's YOUR problem.