Intolerate Atheists Demand Removal of Memorial (myth, preacher, Hindu, best)
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The opinions of the court do not reflect the desires of the majority.
Who cares? The role of the Supreme Court is not to enforce popular votes. It exists to ensure that the popular vote isn't voting on something unconstitutional. For instance, you cannot have a popular vote to return all blacks to slave status because that would be unconstitutional - even if 100% of voters voted 'yes' to reinstituting slavery.
This is why people before brought up "mob rule" in this thread. The Supreme Court does it's best to plug the holes in our governmental system, to shore up the weaknesses in democracy. One of the most common failings of democracy is the tyranny of the majority.
The issue of gay marriage rights in some states were voted upon via a referendum on a ballot - which was one of the most egregious examples of a dysfunctional democracy. Allowing citizens to vote on the civil rights of a minority group is a textbook case of the majority inflicting tyranny in those states. In other words, it is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner that night. Get it?
The Supreme Court does it's level best to ensure that the sheep doesn't end up in the wolves pot with every vote. It doesn't just wait for a popular vote and then brainlessly enforce the results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Rather it has been a small vocal minority who have boxed the courts into a corner on issues of separation of church and state because the concept allows for lots of gray area and interpretation, not easily specific.
I love how you keep mentioning how it's a "small vocal minority" as if they don't have any rights - that small vocal minorities must inevitably be crushed every single time by the weight of a large vocal majority.
And no ... the courts are not being "boxed in" by anything. I know you want to think the separation of church and state is filled with all of these "gray areas" where no precedent has been set, but that's just not how it really is. According to the letter of the law, the school is violating the Constitution and will probably have to remove the memorial.
I wasn't cheering for either side ... until I saw the Christians in this thread arguing how they should be exempt from having to obey they law. I'm more of a "spirit of the law" kind of gal myself and could have lived just fine if the memorial had stayed where it is. But, since certain Christians apparently feel they are under no obligation to obey any law they don't like, I'm throwing in with the atheists. I've heard too many Christians say already that the Bible, not the Supreme Court, has the final word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The notion that a simple memorial with a cross equates to a school establishing Christianity as the official religion of the school is absurd and ridiculous.
A public school cannot even give the appearance of endorsing or establishing a religion on it's grounds. If we did things by your way of thinking, schools could put crosses everywhere, make kids read the Bible, or do whatever the hell they want with religion in the school -- just as long as they concoct some BS story beforehand how, for example, Friday afternoon sermons aren't "endorsing or establishing a religion ... no, no, absolutely not. You see, we're -- uh -- holding weekly memorials for a beloved teacher who died back in the 40's. He loved to pray in the chapel."
And we would have to say in response, "Oooh, okay, well in that case, I don't mind at all if you drag kids to church every Friday and force them to listen to Christian mythology about how they have to accept Jesus as their savior or burn in hell. Just as long as you're not trying to endorse or establish a religion."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If Christianity is severely declining, why do you see movies like "God's not Dead" or "Passion of the Christ" pull in huge numbers?
Heh. The very fact that religious groups feel the need to start making movies about God all of the sudden should clue you in as to just how well your religion is doing -- especially among the 30 and below crowd. There's almost never any preachy religious movies at the theaters until, suddenly, Christians looked up from their Bibles and noticed that secularism and raw spiritualism were gaining a lot of ground. Sure, the movie drew in large audiences - but only because a lot of religious people who wouldn't ever see a movie of any other kind decided to go to the theaters. Obviously Christianity is still overwhelmingly prevalent among Americans so there are lots of Christians who went to the movies. BUT, if you think the seats were being filled by a lot of non-Christians who walked out re-examining their secularist/atheist ways, think again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The decline in church membership is more a factor of industrialization, economic problems, and urbanization. Specifically, modern lifestyle has created an extremely busy stress filled world for most families.
Oh really? This sounds suspiciously like you're trying to convince yourself, not the rest of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
More people have to work on Sunday, and people move around more often than previous generations so the church doesn't become a focal part of the community any more. You rarely have churches even keep the same pastor anymore for a lifetime.
Hmm, okay, I'll play the speculation game. I think the decline in church membership and religious affiliation is occurring, especially among the young, because religion outed itself as being mean, intolerant, hateful, and bigoted with its concerted push to deny gays the right to marry. When you couple that with noisy and prominent preachers who think everything from 9/11 to the Sandy Hook shootings was a result of sin (caused by the usual suspects like gays, feminists, intellectuals, and the ACLU) and people are getting turned off. Plus you have other issues like the pedophilia scandal in the Catholic Church as well as their indirect genocide of Africans in their Aids-ridden nations. Atheists, agnostics, and secularists are winning hands down on the internet, and that's where the young spend a lot of their time. It's inevitable in many ways that religion and its influence will decline even further as the older, more religious Americans die off to be replaced by secular-minded middle-aged adults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
All these factors doesn't mean that faith is dying and has no purpose or role in society.
Religion in the minds of many are starting to see religion's role in society as being restrictive, the authority figure who wants to try and control every aspect of their lives. Religion exists to tell us all how to dress, how to wear our hair, what music we can hear, what books we can read, what pictures we can look at, who we can associate with, and who we should hate.
This has been going on across the country, in many forms, for quite some time. Radical atheism run amuck. We call it "Law-fare". Take it to the courts and threaten to sue. The ultimate goal is the purging of all religious symbols from the public arena.
So far, so good. That is in fact the goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan
Once that is accomplished, the atheists will go after the private realm.
Please link to substantiation for this claim. If there is a group of atheists or even non-Christians with this agenda I will be happy to publicly oppose it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan
We are all supposed to worship them, their atheism and their gods.....
Um ... we have no gods to demand that you worship, by definition. And I certainly don't want you to worship ME. Good grief.
This has been going on across the country, in many forms, for quite some time. Radical atheism run amuck. We call it "Law-fare". Take it to the courts and threaten to sue. The ultimate goal is the purging of all religious symbols from the public arena. Once that is accomplished, the atheists will go after the private realm. All the while of course claiming there is "no ultimate agenda" and that they are just doing it because some find it offensive, separation of church and state (which does NOT appear in the U.S. Constitution) and God is dead/an invention of the human mind. Same old B.S. They don't want it and they don't want you to have it. We are all supposed to worship them, their atheism and their gods.....
I think it shows we need to learn from children, they don't see & understand politics, they just see a memorial for someone that they loved & admired and yet there are jerks think otherwise
I think it shows we need to learn from children, they don't see & understand politics, they just see a memorial for someone that they loved & admired and yet there are jerks think otherwise
I agree that we should learn from children. All children are non-religious until they are indoctrinated with religion by adults.
A public school is the last place that religious symbols should be displayed. There are vulnerable children around.
I think it shows we need to learn from children, they don't see & understand politics, they just see a memorial for someone that they loved & admired and yet there are jerks think otherwise
Learning from children? Your bible is not written with children in mind. There are no children represented, although there is a mention about sons being the heritage.... psalms. Perhaps by children you mean boys only. Let's not forget the whole rod as discipline thing in proverbs.
I am not a jerk. My children would not like the memorial. Would they be jerks, too? Simply because they disagree with you?
This has been going on across the country, in many forms, for quite some time. Radical atheism run amuck. We call it "Law-fare". Take it to the courts and threaten to sue. The ultimate goal is the purging of all religious symbols from the public arena. Once that is accomplished, the atheists will go after the private realm. All the while of course claiming there is "no ultimate agenda" and that they are just doing it because some find it offensive, separation of church and state (which does NOT appear in the U.S. Constitution) and God is dead/an invention of the human mind. Same old B.S. They don't want it and they don't want you to have it. We are all supposed to worship them, their atheism and their gods.....
Hate to break it to you champ, but we don't care about what you do in the privacy of your own homes.
This has been going on across the country, in many forms, for quite some time. Radical atheism run amuck. We call it "Law-fare". Take it to the courts and threaten to sue. The ultimate goal is the purging of all religious symbols from the public arena. Once that is accomplished, the atheists will go after the private realm. All the while of course claiming there is "no ultimate agenda" and that they are just doing it because some find it offensive, separation of church and state (which does NOT appear in the U.S. Constitution) and God is dead/an invention of the human mind. Same old B.S. They don't want it and they don't want you to have it. We are all supposed to worship them, their atheism and their gods.....
You'd best double up on the tinfoil. Those rays are penetrating your hat.
The opinions of the court do not reflect the desires of the majority. Rather it has been a small vocal minority who have boxed the courts into a corner on issues of separation of church and state because the concept allows for lots of gray area and interpretation, not easily specific. The notion that a simple memorial with a cross equates to a school establishing Christianity as the official religion of the school is absurd and ridiculous.
If Christianity is severely declining, why do you see movies like "God's not Dead" or "Passion of the Christ" pull in huge numbers? The decline in church membership is more a factor of industrialization, economic problems, and urbanization. Specifically, modern lifestyle has created an extremely busy stress filled world for most families. More people have to work on Sunday, and people move around more often than previous generations so the church doesn't become a focal part of the community any more. You rarely have churches even keep the same pastor anymore for a lifetime.
All these factors doesn't mean that faith is dying and has no purpose or role in society.
The purpose of the Supreme Court -- and appellate courts in general in the US -- is to protect the rights of minorities from being trampled by the self-righteous bigotry of the majority.
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