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Amen, sparrow. This is an absurd extremist over reaction and deliberate misrepresentation of the church/state separation paradigm. There is NO issue of establishment of a religion involved here . . . and everyone knows it. This is a false and mean-spirited attack on ANY public expressions that even hint that anyone has or ever had a belief in God. I can only hope that this psychological over-reaction about belief in God playing out in the public square and the courts will run its course and lose steam in the future as these irrational zealots die off. Abreaction is a normal result of long-term frustration . . . and atheists have had a lot of that.
Sorry, but it is. It is favoring Christianity over other religions by displaying its symbols in a public place.
And we are really sick of Bible haters minority who want to tear down traditions just so they can live in a bubble and never have to publically see anything religious. Schools got along just fine for many decades until ppl of your mindset caused chaos and clogged the courts with ridiculous lawsuits. A cross memorial is not forcing religion on you.
Get a clue. Not everybody who opposes religious symbols in public schools is anti-religious. They simply hate having somebody else's religion forced on their children ... or anybody's children, and invariably the people most eager to push their religion into the public schools are conservative Christians who go around justifying their own bigotry and un-Christlike behavior with bible verses.
This country "got along just fine for many decades" with discrimination against African Americans, women, and gays until those people demanding equal rights "caused chaos and clogged the courts" with what I am sure you think are/were "ridiculous lawsuits".
Sorry, but it is. It is favoring Christianity over other religions by displaying its symbols in a public place.
No favoring Christianity over other symbols would be the school instituting a rule that only Christian crosses are allowed. If she had been a devout Muslim, I don't think anyone would really balk at Islamic symbols on the memorial either. A cross is pretty much a universally accepted memorial symbol. The Somme American cementary is mostly crosses. Does that mean it is promoting Christianity??
No favoring Christianity over other symbols would be the school instituting a rule that only Christian crosses are allowed. If she had been a devout Muslim, I don't think anyone would really balk at Islamic symbols on the memorial either. A cross is pretty much a universally accepted memorial symbol. The Somme American cementary is mostly crosses. Does that mean it is promoting Christianity??
Get a clue. Not everybody who opposes religious symbols in public schools is anti-religious. They simply hate having somebody else's religion forced on their children ... or anybody's children, and invariably the people most eager to push their religion into the public schools are conservative Christians who go around justifying their own bigotry and un-Christlike behavior with bible verses.
1. Forcing religion - schools demanding as part of their curriculum that students read the Bible.
2. Not forcing religion - a banner showing a Bible verse being in public view. If you find that offensive, that's your problem. It's no different than driving down the highway and having to see a billboard sign that is offensive. It is simply a message that you can choose to reject or ponder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
This country "got along just fine for many decades" with discrimination against African Americans, women, and gays until those people demanding equal rights "caused chaos and clogged the courts" with what I am sure you think are/were "ridiculous lawsuits".
Discrimination is a totally different topic and is an irrelevant comparison.. The only reason you bring it up is to demonize Christians.
The Supreme Court ruled in 1980 that it was unconstitutional to post the Ten Commandments in a public school. Knowing that, why would anybody think it was NOT unconstitutional to put a cross on public school property?
That's a distorted view of reality. Let's get back to reality. The vast number of the world's population has religious beliefs. Oh they may have fallen into the trap of getting caught up in our busy world's demands and push their religious beliefs to the wayside, but when the chips fall, you can beat they start praying.
Your opinion that religion is not for the betterment of society is merely your opinion and doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
The vast majority of people in this country are irreligious and border more on spiritual. They often believe in some sort of deity but feel it's a more personal connection that doesn't require the church. One only needs to look at the declining Church numbers to see that. People like that are part of a more secular society which has driven the opinions of the court for the last 40-50 years. This is why prayer in school has been lost, the reading of the bible in school, clergy prayer in school,creationism being taught in school, etc etc etc... Those things existed for the balance of this Countries history but only began to be struck down in modern times. So no my friend, your views are the ones that don't hold up to scrutiny.
1. Forcing religion - schools demanding as part of their curriculum that students read the Bible.
It is not just the Bible. In my home country of Ireland students have the option to "opt out" of the religion part of the course. This does not work at all however for two reasons.
The first is that the schools make this as difficult as possible. They do not provide facilities for the students who are opting out. So the parents would have to come and collect the child for that time period, or pay for some person to come and supervise.
Worse however we have what is called an "Inegrated School Curriculum" which is that religion teaching and indoctrination permeates the rest of the curriculum too. So opting out of the specific religious part is unhelpful anyway, because the child still gets the religion forced in the rest of the day anyway. No way to opt out of THAT.
So forcing religion in schools is a lot more complex and intricate than you let on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
a banner showing a Bible verse being in public view. If you find that offensive, that's your problem. It's no different than driving down the highway and having to see a billboard sign that is offensive. It is simply a message that you can choose to reject or ponder.
Except the distinction you have pretended for the whole thread you do not see, is that a bill board is privately owned and privately financed. Someone has used their own money to finance this. So I do not see an issue. This is NOT comparable to a public institution, publicly owned, sanctioning or financing a religious symbol, or showing preference to one religion over another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Discrimination is a totally different topic and is an irrelevant comparison.. The only reason you bring it up is to demonize Christians.
Just like the only reason you pretend the issue is other than it actually is, is to demonize atheists.
The Supreme Court ruled in 1980 that it was unconstitutional to post the Ten Commandments in a public school. Knowing that, why would anybody think it was NOT unconstitutional to put a cross on public school property?
Because groups always want to test the Supreme Court to see if they will get more sympathy as time goes on. I mean look how often schools still try to teach Creationism even though Courts have ruled against it time and time again.
No favoring Christianity over other symbols would be the school instituting a rule that only Christian crosses are allowed. If she had been a devout Muslim, I don't think anyone would really balk at Islamic symbols on the memorial either. A cross is pretty much a universally accepted memorial symbol. The Somme American cementary is mostly crosses. Does that mean it is promoting Christianity??
Apples to Oranges. It wouldn't matter if the cemetery was, because it has a religious aspect to it.
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