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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 209 40.04%
No 263 50.38%
Unsure 50 9.58%
Voters: 522. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-24-2023, 07:55 AM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,369,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
It takes YEARS to properly train combat fighter pilots …… are you 8 years old? Does your mom know you are talking to adults on the internet?

True in general, but in this case, BS.
The Ukrainians being trained are already MIG29 pilots. Some, if not all have combat experience.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=22b1dbe86711

They and their ground crews are just adding an additional plane to their skillset. They would like to have more time in training, but it's not like they're fresh out of high school.
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Old 11-24-2023, 08:35 AM
 
15,273 posts, read 8,787,703 times
Reputation: 7616
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
That is probably how Russia recruited Riter, through his weakness as a sex predator. Spy agencies recruit foreigners by exploiting their weakness. Some people like money. Some people hate their government. Scott Riter likes to have sex with children.

The Russians probably offered Riter access to children for sex in exchange for him working for Russia.
Is this the gathering place for the National Association of Clueless Know Nothings?

First of all …. Wikipedia? Really? It’s no surprise that the most poorly informed tend to cite these known fraudulent sources for their information. Always on the list is Wikipedia, Snopes, Fact Check Org, etc. y’all never get a clue.

Personally, I don’t know anything about this supposed sex case against Ritter, but what I do know is that this is one of the oldest tricks in the book to smear and discredit those who might choose to speak truth to power, step on the wrong toes, or refuse to keep their mouths shut about something powerful forces want kept secret.

Typically, these tactics are used to extort, and never actually exposed, because the leverage rests in the threat of exposure, rather than actual exposure. So, when something like this is “exposed” that’s the most compelling sign that it is a false allegation, with the sole purpose of assassinating the person’s character, thereby discrediting what they have said. People with an adult understanding of how the real world works, understand this.

You, me, or anyone else are totally vulnerable to such an attack, which takes little effort to accomplish. Anyone can easily be targeted, and have compromising material downloaded to their computers without their knowledge. It’s child’s play.

But the real ignorance is taking the bait, and falling for the tactic by rejecting any information source based on unrelated allegations of wrongdoing, whether the allegations are true or false. That’s irrelevant to whether the source and their information has value or not. This of course requires the ability to think, which seems to be a talent many of you here lack.
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Old 11-24-2023, 09:21 AM
 
15,273 posts, read 8,787,703 times
Reputation: 7616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
True in general, but in this case, BS.
The Ukrainians being trained are already MIG29 pilots. Some, if not all have combat experience.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=22b1dbe86711

They and their ground crews are just adding an additional plane to their skillset. They would like to have more time in training, but it's not like they're fresh out of high school.
You simply don’t know what you are talking about … at all. And it’s astonishing that people like you speak so authoritatively, as if you do, when you are really just offering uneducated opinions that are based only on fact-less perceptions.

The real truth is, experts in combat aviation, and particularly addressing YOUR specific point, will tell you that experienced MiG pilots face a significantly greater challenge in learning American fighters like the F16, compared to those with no MiG experience at all. It’s not an advantage or shortcut … it’s an obstacle. That’s because fighter pilots rely on split second instincts and instant reactions which are the result of years of pilot training, practice and experience. The multitude of differences between a MiG 29 and an F16 make for a considerable challenge as the pilot must un-learn everything about the MiG, while learning anew, everything about the F16. This information comes directly from actual combat aircraft flight instructors who have dealt with the difficulties in this transition. The challenge comes in when under extreme stress, the Pilot’s natural, instinctive reactions take over, which are based on years of training and experience. The more experienced, the greater the challenge.
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Old 11-24-2023, 09:35 AM
 
15,273 posts, read 8,787,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
We take years because we have years. Those who flew in WWII, Korea and Vietnam which is closer to the Ukrainian situation had an accelerated curve over those in the present sustainment training programs. We are coming up to the second anniversary of the restarting of the conflict.
What an absurd suggestion …. we spend so much time training because we have a lot of spare time to dedicate to it, so we do, but it’s not really necessary? WTH dude? Where do you come up with this crap? NO ….we dedicate the amount of time that is required to properly train modern supersonic jet fighter pilots, because it’s a very complex skill to learn, and takes a lot of time. That is, if you actually want combat pilots that are capable of surviving combat.

What’s really so astonishing is the level of absurdity needed to compare WW II fighter pilot training with modern jet fighter pilots. The differences aren’t too far removed from comparing the medical skill necessary to stitch up a cut finger, to the skills required to perform successful brain surgery. There is no 1 to 1 comparison, and the attempt to do so is ridiculous in the extreme.

Last edited by GuyNTexas; 11-24-2023 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 11-24-2023, 09:52 AM
 
26,805 posts, read 15,355,710 times
Reputation: 14943
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's View Post
Macgregor and Ritter are two paid shills that should be tried for treason...btw, here's 'Reporting from Ukraine's update...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lXCG6Xipqg
Denys the youtuber has made millions of dollars off of this war while talking out of his butt.

When this war profiteer says something that is obviously BS like Ukraine will do an amphibious invasion of Crimea, his followers pass it off as him creating a "false flag" to fool Putin who they apparently think hangs on Denys's every word.

When Denys contradicts major US media quoting US military intelligence working directly with Ukraine, his followers thinks its because he knows better than those in the know.
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Old 11-24-2023, 09:58 AM
 
51,806 posts, read 26,130,999 times
Reputation: 38131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
True in general, but in this case, BS.
The Ukrainians being trained are already MIG29 pilots. Some, if not all have combat experience.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=22b1dbe86711

They and their ground crews are just adding an additional plane to their skillset. They would like to have more time in training, but it's not like they're fresh out of high school.
Plus, I'd bet good money they've been practicing on simulators for some time now.

Wish they were getting some A-10s.
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Old 11-24-2023, 10:07 AM
bu2
 
24,314 posts, read 15,150,265 times
Reputation: 13179
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sim_Mister View Post
I stopped watching as soon he said his name. He is either an idiot or on purpose saying bs. Most of the stuff he said is completely wrong, not worth listening to anything he says.
There has not been anything MacGregor has said about the war that is right. He should be embarrassed to keep talking. And hosts should be embarrassed to interview him.
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Old 11-24-2023, 10:58 AM
 
15,273 posts, read 8,787,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Plus, I'd bet good money they've been practicing on simulators for some time now.

Wish they were getting some A-10s.
I wouldn’t bet a single penny on your opinions. The facts are, the difficulties and time it takes to properly train F16 combat pilots is well known, and particularly the challenges in transitioning former Soviet aircraft trained pilots to American F16s. NATO has a lot of experience in this area.

Of course, when it comes to training Ukrainian Pilots … the typical 1-2 year combat ready training period can be whittled down to 3 or 4 months, and I’ve read those “leaked reports”, but what they don’t say is that this is only feasible because nobody gives a rats ass about their survival, much like the 500,000 Ukrainian ground troops sent off to die in the meat grinder. Gotta break a few eggs if you want to make an omelette.

But the real truth is, basic F16 avionics training takes 6 months … while actual combat training comes after that, and takes a considerable amount of time becoming proficient in the operation of complex multiple target acquisition and tracking radar systems and alerts, and the multiple weapon systems onboard those planes.

Comparative analysis of the F16 versus a Mig29 is no comparison at all. The F16 is infinitely superior, but also infinitely more complex and time consuming for a pilot to be adequately trained and competent. Otherwise, the advantages are null. One F16 can take out several MiGs before the MiGs even know it is there. The MiGs have short range radars, and are heavily reliant on ground support for target identification and targeting, whereas the independent long range, multi-target radars of the F16 can eliminate the MiGs before the MiGs realize the threat.

As for A10’s … they are ground attack aircraft, requiring fighter protection, not fighters themselves. And they are terribly slow, with a top speed of 420 mph. They are scheduled for decommissioning this year, because of their limitations in today’s modern combat environment. Nasty killers in certain roles, as their massive gun is quite impressive, but they are very limited in the roles they can perform today. The Russians would shoot those down like clay pigeons without fighters protecting them.
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Old 11-24-2023, 11:10 AM
 
15,273 posts, read 8,787,703 times
Reputation: 7616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
McGregor announced Ukraine was about to be defeated on Jan 27, 2022 and needs to negotiate. LINK TO ARTICLE


Here's a quote from Feb, 2022:
And he was absolutely correct. Ukraine lost this war months ago, and now hanging from the cliff by their fingernails. Yet, they continue to feed their hapless soldiers into the meat grinder anyway, with nothing to show for it. Even NATO is admitting there is a “stalemate” now, which is a significant departure from their previous claims of slowly but surely winning the war, and Russia losing. It’s been nothing but pure propaganda for the better part of a year now. Obviously, the US, NATO, and Ukraine are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians for political optics. But everyone inside the ropes knows the score.
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Old 11-24-2023, 11:14 AM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,068,306 times
Reputation: 7032
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
And he was absolutely correct. Ukraine lost this war months ago, and now hanging from the cliff by their fingernails. Yet, they continue to feed their hapless soldiers into the meat grinder anyway, with nothing to show for it. Even NATO is admitting there is a “stalemate” now, which is a significant departure from their previous claims of slowly but surely winning the war, and Russia losing. It’s been nothing but pure propaganda for the better part of a year now. Obviously, the US, NATO, and Ukraine are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians for political optics. But everyone inside the ropes knows the score.
Your from Texas I am guessing. If Texas or the US was under attack would you just give up, or would you do your best to win?
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